Biofuel in UK Diesel

[mikemanor]

In addition to previous post, there is requirement for marine diesel retailers to sell fuel with FAME if they are in Category A or B waters, but not if they are in C or D.

I don't think that is quite correct. The requirement for Cat A and B (inland) waters is that the fuel is Ultra Low Sulphur (ULS), there is no requirement for it to contain FAME.

However, ULS FAME Free red diesel is available on inland waterways and is sold, and advertised as such, at marinas on the River Great Ouse system. All the marinas use the same supplier and I can give details on request.

 

[Trundlebug]

I don't believe there are octane booster's for diesel, like petrol, but diesel does not degrade like petrol over time. The issue with diesel is the potential for water to introduce the dreaded bug. This is where bio fuel can be more of a problem.

My understanding was that Diesel fuel with FAME goes jellified after 3-6 months, hence the concern about shortened life. Would appreciate more comments on this to confirm.

The moisture content is another (additional) problem, best dealt with by fuel polishing rather than just biocide treatment so that the water is removed and therefore the bug has no habitat.

As a result I've been running down my tanks during this season and now intend to polish the fuel every spring, just refuelling with enough to get me through the season. A completely different approach from before, when I always kept my tanks topped up over winter.

I don't want to find my tanks full of expensive, scrap jelly in the spring

 

[BlueSkyNick]

I don't think that is quite correct. The requirement for Cat A and B (inland) waters is that the fuel is Ultra Low Sulphur (ULS), there is no requirement for it to contain FAME.

I stand corrected, I was very tired last night !!

There dozens of previous threads on this subject, and many more articles on line.

My only point is that red diesel sold in marinas in the Solent area does NOT contain FAME so it is not a concern at the current time. Who knows how it will pan out in the future.

 

[rafiki_]

My understanding was that Diesel fuel with FAME goes jellified after 3-6 months, hence the concern about shortened life. Would appreciate more comments on this to confirm.

The moisture content is another (additional) problem, best dealt with by fuel polishing rather than just biocide treatment so that the water is removed and therefore the bug has no habitat.

As a result I've been running down my tanks during this season and now intend to polish the fuel every spring, just refuelling with enough to get me through the season. A completely different approach from before, when I always kept my tanks topped up over winter.

I don't want to find my tanks full of expensive, scrap jelly in the spring

I will be brimming as normal. I'll check with the Techie who does most of the maintenance in our marina if there have been any signs of jelly or other problems.

 

[Piers]

My understanding was that Diesel fuel with FAME goes jellified after 3-6 months.

OK, so if we deal with the water content and the diesel bug, we are left with the (possible) jellifying of the diesel. How do we establish once and for all the reality behind the 'jelly' factor.

1) Fact or fiction?
2) If fact, is it treatable?

Piers

 

[Bandit]

I dont know about jellyfication, this is a new one on me I do know it is not as stable as mineral diesel and goes out of condition it is also more hydroscopic and draws in water that is dissolved or combines with the bio content. Diesel bug thinks bio diesel is delicious.

I understand that the reduction in sulphur exacerbates the problem as sulphur is a lubricant in diesel for the injection system and the sulphur content inhibits diesel bug.

The only straight answer I can see is :

Remove water from the tank whenever you can, by draining or stripping or polishing with an on board unit

Treat with a good biocide on all occasions

Possibly partially block the airflow for the fuel tanks to reduce condensation

and the obvious, burn more diesel is the only answer somewhat reducing the idea of introducing the bio content in the first place.

 

[Piers]

...and the obvious, burn more diesel is the only answer somewhat reducing the idea of introducing the bio content in the first place.

And that's the problem. On average, I burn 1/3 of Play d'eau's capacity per annum, so there's diesel in the tanks dating back years which, although topped up with fresh, is old. The thought of having a potentially degrading form of fuel on board fills me with concern. Hence the qn about a 'Viagra' style additive to bring it back to life.

 

[rafiki_]

And that's the problem. On average, I burn 1/3 of Play d'eau's capacity per annum, so there's diesel in the tanks dating back years which, although topped up with fresh, is old. The thought of having a potentially degrading form of fuel on board fills me with concern. Hence the qn about a 'Viagra' style additive to bring it back to life.

Piers, I believe that if you are buying your diesel on the coast, this is still high sulphur fuel, less likely to contain bio diesel.

 

[Trundlebug]

And that's the problem. On average, I burn 1/3 of Play d'eau's capacity per annum, so there's diesel in the tanks dating back years which, although topped up with fresh, is old. The thought of having a potentially degrading form of fuel on board fills me with concern. Hence the qn about a 'Viagra' style additive to bring it back to life.

I have the same problem, 100 hours worth of fuel capacity. It's difficult to avoid having at least some old fuel in there, especially as the carp summer has reduced our cruising hours down from 100 to 60 this year.

To my knowledge all the diesel fuel additives are either cetane boosters or biocides (or enzymes, same intention), or a combination of the two. There aren't any life extenders as such. Hence my revised fuel management arrangements these days.

However, you're much better off on the coast because at least your fuel is less likely to have FAME content. Here on the inland waterways, some bureaucrat has decreed we must buy FAME diesel. Even though our marina specifies FAME free, there's always a lingering doubt, as many suppliers don't seem to know or care about the difference (from what I've heard).

 

[mikemanor]

Here on the inland waterways, some bureaucrat has decreed we must buy FAME diesel.

That is not quite correct. The requirement on Inland Waterways is that the Diesel must be Ultra Low Sulphur (ULS). The marina where I keep my boat (inland), and others nearby have no difficulty sourcing ULS FAME Free Red diesel. It is available. There may be a "trace" of FAME due to the distribution processes, but it is fundamentally FAME Free. The trick is to find a supplier who actually knows their product!

 

[Latestarter1]

And that's the problem. On average, I burn 1/3 of Play d'eau's capacity per annum, so there's diesel in the tanks dating back years which, although topped up with fresh, is old. The thought of having a potentially degrading form of fuel on board fills me with concern. Hence the qn about a 'Viagra' style additive to bring it back to life.

Piers,

Thare is a lot of smoke and windows regarding marine fuels.

Thought we had put this to bed way back.

Whilst Solent is reasonably well served we have to remember that over 95% of gas oil produced is for the NRMM (Non Road Mobile Machinery) market which has had to be sulpur free for near two years now. Simple fact is that you are very likely to bunker NRMM fuel at some point.

The smoke and windows comes in when it comes to FAME, the downsteam distributon market has a real problem with this junk is even contaminating aviation fuels. About a year ago I was passed the spec of a fuel being supplied by a marina as FAME free by a concerned party. The spec showed a percentage of FAME?? When I drilled down into it I discovered that fuel with FAME below a certain percentage is deemed FAME free, cannot remember the absolute # but second fact of life that it is there.

The other piece of dock talk is formation of jelly, not true.

Just rest easy your Fleming has a well engineered fuel filteration set up and it would be nuts easy to modify your system to incorporate fuel polishing, either with timed pumps or with solar powered pumps or both.

PM me if you require specifics.

PS And please to those out there calling fuel ULSD, the new NRMM fuel is virtually sulphur free fuel, less than 10 parts per million, ULSD was less than 50 parts per million.

 

[Bandit]

Latestarter

Can you please confirm the efeect of ULSD or NRMM on a diesel engine in the long term?

 

[andrewbarker]

And that's the problem. On average, I burn 1/3 of Play d'eau's capacity per annum, so there's diesel in the tanks dating back years which, although topped up with fresh, is old. The thought of having a potentially degrading form of fuel on board fills me with concern. Hence the qn about a 'Viagra' style additive to bring it back to life.

In addition to the degrading effects of biodiesel already discussed, it has an 8% lower calorific value than "normal" low sulphur, so power and economy will be down. Also, there is a diluting effect on fuel, so expect to see more sump contamination and therefore a need for more frequent oil changes.
Andrew

 

[Latestarter1]

Latestarter

Can you please confirm the efeect of ULSD or NRMM on a diesel engine in the long term?

Modern diesel engines absolutely zero impact. The range of additives from Lubrizol have proved totally effective.

Inline fuel pumps nothing, whatever their age. Bosch rotary pumps are built to far tighter tolerances CAV rotary pumps. Older well worn CAV DPA pumps may suffer hot re-start issues due to heat soak in engine compartment after long run, then shut down. CAV's can vapour lock on these 'lighter' fuels.

Very simple fix for vapour locked DPA, keep a bottle of cold tap water to hand and pour it over the pump body, motor will start in a trice! Re-building CAV DPA's helps a little and I have experimented with off engine electric lift pumps and upping delivery pressure slightly. Have also used higher pressure plunger type fuel pumps intended for in-line injection equipment and cut the spring slightly cutting down pressure from 15 psi to just inder 10 psi which is a tad more than usual 5/7 psi.

Hit the problem first, then holler for help.

 

[BlueSkyNick]

About a year ago I was passed the spec of a fuel being supplied by a marina as FAME free by a concerned party. The spec showed a percentage of FAME?? When I drilled down into it I discovered that fuel with FAME below a certain percentage is deemed FAME free, cannot remember the absolute # but second fact of life that it is there.

....

PS And please to those out there calling fuel ULSD, the new NRMM fuel is virtually sulphur free fuel, less than 10 parts per million, ULSD was less than 50 parts per million.

Esso's GO10 which is supplied to most marinas in the SOlent area, is indeed 10ppm.

IIRC the FAME content is stated as less than 1%, because they wont guarantee 0% due to possible contamination in the logistics. (ie the lorry tanks are not cleaned out in between deliveries of different product)