Biodegradable biocide that emulsifies water!

[tobiasparker]

Hi All, I'm doing a bit of research for an Imperial College boffin who has created a biocide that removes water, as well as being less nasty i.e. biodegradable and handlable than most other products on the market. It's been tested in a different environment, but could be run through some marine engines.

It'd cost a similar amount as other items - does this sound attractive?

Tobias

 

[sarabande]

I'll test it in our diesel tank for you ! Only a minor field trials charge !

Seriously ....

 

[bdsweeting]

Sounds like a dangerous product to have near any boat.

Spill some over the side and there you are, stuck on the putty. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[cliff]

[ QUOTE ]
Hi All, I'm doing a bit of research for an Imperial College boffin who has created a biocide that removes water, as well as being less nasty i.e. biodegradable and handlable than most other products on the market. It's been tested in a different environment, but could be run through some marine engines.

It'd cost a similar amount as other items - does this sound attractive?

Tobias

[/ QUOTE ]Why only some marine engines?
Why cost the same as others? - your Imperial College boffin has not had any R&D costs surely.
Does it sound attractive - NOT to me but I am prepared to run trials for you in return for a life time free supply and a £10,000 bond to cover replacing my engine /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
--------------------

"Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity"
sailroom <span style="color:red">The place to auction your previously loved boatie bits</span>

 

[sarabande]

The concept of removing water from the marine environment. Like it muchly ! A new product for the marine market ?

INSTANKA - the Hook in a Can
Drive up,
Pour on,
Settle down,

(and dinner's just over the side)

Sounds like practical trials, preferably in the Seychelles region, are called for.

 

[richardabeattie]

Tobias
Forumites are always a bit doubtful about new entrants who don't fill in their profiles and offer wonderful things or pose new questions on behalf of unidentified third parties. Why don't you tell us a bit more? And your question is ambiguous. Does your boffin merely want to know whether there is a market (Answer is Yes once it is demonstrated to be effective, safe, cheap and easily obtainable) or are you and your boffin looking to organise experimental trials in our precious boats?

 

[Bilgediver]

The basics sound fine and the answer to our prayers however sometimes it takes more than just adding two solutions together for an emulsion to form, ie mechanical stirring. as we can t always guarantee to be sailing in choppy waters will this emulsion form without help.

The bond to cover engine testing would be a lot less on an old reliable Volvo MD2b which would probably suffer no more than slight additional fuel pump and nozzle wear as the inefficieent scraper rings allow enough oil past to take care of the liners /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

John

 

[Guest]

Marvelous ... except ... emulsify water .... then you mention removes water ...

The environmental issue is a weak one in fact ... as most people look for - availability, ease of use and effectiveness. Green issues sad to say do not figure high on most humans list.

I deal and use additives ... but having seen some wonderful concoctions pass along the way ... it normally returns to the old stand-by's ....

Water removal from Marine engines .... not usually a problem or needed in fact ... "free-water" drops out easy enough ... an Oil / Water filter is sufficient ... suspended water is in such small amount and is normal - that engine will run normal ...

So I'm trying to think of real advantage to a boat-owner ....

 

[dulcibella]

I work for Imperial so I claim first place in the queue for free samples.

 

[gandy]

Removes water from what? I guess either engine oil, or diesel fuel.

I don't think biodegradeable would make any difference in either of those contexts, neither engine oil nor Diesel oil biodegradeable in any case.

Now, biodegradable thing to remove oil from water, that might be more relevant.

 

[ParaHandy]

the product after the water has been disolved into it can't really degrade, can it? To do so the water molecule with hydrogen & oxygen atoms must break down or bond chemically with the biocide and what you describe sounds as if it is a physical link eg similar to a surfactant. Anyway, whatever is left behind can not be allowed to accumulate (at the bottom of a fuel tank) ......

one other thought is mass distribution. A small amount of biocide has to get itself around, say, a 120gallon tank and there is one time (when a boat is laid up and when such a product might be useful) when there is no mechanical agitation ..

 

[tobiasparker]

Hmmm - thanks for the comments - (esp. about the irony of it) - new around these parts, so probably a bit more info is required. This is no request to test some gloop on anyone's spangly engines as it would be done in a lab (that's where the boffin comes into it), and it's not commercial yet so this is no sales pitch, either. What I'm trying to figure out is whether the combination of the biocide that removes nasty fungal gunk, and the way it emulsifies any water in the fuel tank allowing it to be drawn through and burnt with improved fuel efficiency, coupled with the fact that unlike your regular biocides, it won't eat your head off if you accidentally dip it in a bucket of the stuff <pant pant> is different enough from your Starbrites et al to warrant attention. Bit like Biobor/ Fuelclear M68/ Grotamar 71 with a conscience. Sounds like availability and reliability is key, rather than the biodegradable angle. Guess there's not many tree hugging opportunities out at sea.

 

[BrendanS]

How does it compare to the so called different Soltron UK/Soltron US/Soltron by different names eg Ireland/X Bee/Starbright brands which seem to claim similar?

 

[tobiasparker]

It's quite similar although it emulsifies the water, which is part of the problem in the first place and increases fuel efficiency by approx 2% (quite why, I'm not sure other than creating a more efficient burn). In a nutshell, you wouldn't need to empty your tank to remove water, and you wouldn't need to use an additional biocide (and apparently bugs build up resistance to biocides creating super-gloop).

 

[tobiasparker]

Thanks for the pointers, BrendanS!

 

[BrendanS]

Can you come back and tell us when you are sure?, as vague claims don't go far around here

 

[tobiasparker]

Take your point about vague claims - the efficiencies were proven in field trials (albeit in oil-fired boilers) over a 2 year period by UK registered testing house BSRIA (www.bsria.co.uk) so it is legit (can't send you the test report due to non-disclosure agreement) - sometimes boffins come up with things they then have to figure out why it works - will get more detail and return ...

 

[BrendanS]

yes, please bring more info, tho if it's good info it will help you a great deal. Duff info will get you lots of bad publicity. Any boffin from that establishment should know what scientific evidence is required to prove to old scientific duffers like me, something substantive

 

[gjeffery]

Not clear to me if this product was developed at IC, or if IC has a contract to test the product in an engine.

IC taught me to be an objective engineer, to drink beer, and to avoid Snake Oil. A major weakness of the enzyme types of additive is that the advertising makes great claims for performance, but offers only vague support. We are not told what the product is, or how it works, other than that it is an enzyme. For me, an effective and reliably tested product that did not expect me to "take a leap of faith", would be most attractive.

 

[Guest]

Old answer - New Product

To emuslify - Combine two or more disimilar liquids ie oil and water.

Usually done by chemical breakdown of chains / bonds or physical reduction of one or other to allow suspension of one in other.

The above action has been readily available to fuel markets for many years - I have a choice of over 10 additives depending on which fuel, what level of contamination, and environment to be used in.

Further that bench tested additives rarely perform the same out in field - to give example :

5-xxxx (name withheld for Commercial reasons) H2S scavenger requires 15 - 20ppm additive per 1ppm of H2S to reduce - Bench proven.
But - in use in oil terminals / field - actual injection rates average 11 - 14ppm per 1ppm reduction required.

I can go on boring everyone with this subject ......

Onto Biocide resistance - yes this is a product of Retail industry misleading Joe Public .... bit like Anti-Biotics .... sell as much as you can ... get users to use it .... etc. Super-Bugs - blimey even got me at it now !! are possible of course - but as long as an enzyme based additive is used - then a Super-Bug is unlikely. Also that public use of additives is limitede to your own fuel tank ... not one that others have access to. So even if you did create a Super-Gloop as TP calls it ... who else is going to get it ?

OK onto water suspended in fuel ... not so many years ago minute fine water sprayed into engines with fuel gave greater dispersal of the fuel, caused finer droplets of fuel and a more balanced burn ... but was discontinued as it was technologically difficult to maintain the system in average car / engine.
Aircraft used water injection on take-off to increase engine thrust ... I'm not sure if it's allowed anymore ...

The subject is vast and to be honest a difficult one also - I run and own PetroChemical Labs .... and I limit myself to above really - as going deeper needs my Lab to answer further ... and that will bore the pants of most !!