Bigger /newer boat needed..Oh where to starrt!!??

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Longshanks

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SWMBO tells me we really gotta get a bigger and newer boat! Too much time spent maintaining our little 40y old classic and too cramped for all the time we spend living on board during the summer. She's probably right. The trouble is that what catches my eye are Co32, Rival 34, Hustler 35, etc, which in reality will have all the same issues (albeit a bit more room). The 80s designs such as the Sadler 34, or the mid-size Moodys / Westerlys are all getting a bit long in the tooth and sooner or later will need loads of money and TLC to keep them in tip-top condition. So we're left with the much maligned AWBs from the mid 90s onwards. We've sailed lots of these in warmer climates, and from a liveaboard point-of-view do they do the job admirably...but many of them sail like pigs and just don't look right. On the latter point, the Bav 36 doesn't look too bad...but the ones I've seen in the yard might be older models. Having not really followed the "latest" AWB models since the early 90s, where do I start?? Anybody else gone down this road and reached any conclusions ie. how to make the transition from golden oldie to modern plastic without too many disappointments and regrets? Is it even possible...am I wasting my time /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif
 
If you want a boat that really sails, as well as the likes of a Contessa etc then stay away from any AWB labelled as a pure cruiser.
If you want a boat that puts a smile on your face every time you cast off then a decent cruiser racer like an X332 or an Elan333 (in the same size range as the contessa 32) will have much better accomodation and will sail just as well upwind as the contessa (especially the X) and will sail straight past one downwind.

A similar sized AWB cruiser will be a dissapointment to sail in comparison.

The drawbacks are less accomodation than the AWB cruiser, more draught (so less gunkholing) and that boats like these have to be actively sailed much more than the AWB cruisers and bad trim is punished with a boat that won't sail in a straight line, much more so than a classic with its long forgiving keel.
 
No, you are not wasting your time. Have a look at YM December 2004 which has a review of a 6 year old Bav 38 charter (in UK).

Of that era, my favourite is the 37, mainly because I have one. Good balance of performance, accommodation and looks. 36 has different layout and 38 is altogether bigger with 2 loos.

Whether you can live with one depends on your expectations, but 3000 new customers a year can't be all wrong.

Good luck with your search.
 
Just move up in size and stick with a classic. That's what I did in the end, no matter how I looked at AWB, I just never though I'd be content with one. Plenty of big classics kicking around at managable prices.
 
Not a fair comparison. These people are voting with their own money for their own benefit!

As I said it depends on your expectations. Don't expect them to be sharp performers like a cruiser racer and you won't be disappointed. Everything is a compromise - the trick is to get the compromise that suits you.
 
As someone who has sailed Rival 38's, Twisters, Halmatic 30's many many miles....I ended up with a Bav 390 for a long cruise for over a year.

The 320 is also a very nice yacht, have a search, they stopped making these in 92-93. They were equiped with a much higher standard and size of fittings than later Bavs. They could have been from a different manufacturer.

Well built, they sail well, and handle rough weather extremely well. Not that many were sold in the UK though as at the time they were an expensive boat trying to compete with the Scandinavians.
 
Tigger is an AWB - I suppose. A Dufour 35 labelled "Classic" for some reason - sails really well and has plenty of room. She is not for sale, but I am pretty sure you may find others around.
 
All boats are a compromise between what you dream/what you want/what you need/what you can afford.

Best sailing boats are narrow long keelers some like the Rustler 36 and Spirit are still made but can you afford them.

Realistically the Rustler 36 is a 1 cabin 2 berth boat yes there is a quarter berth but no wardrobe and the table can convert but again no storage.

There are good performance AWB's but they have narrow bow sections, deeper keels and taller masts. Then there are spacious AWB's which at 36' give you a good 3 double cabins.

The performace AWB's are the old Elans 29/33 & 40 the new Dufours 34/40/44 the Benny First range and a number of the 80/90's Jeanneau's, Dehlers & Sigmas, Some Hanse also perform well. Bavaria did also make the match range of performance AWB's but a couple of keel failures have left a bad reputation.

The caravan AWB's go OK (but no so fast) on a run or a reach but don't point so high. many AWB's are little short of motor sailors so always go for the biggest engine.

Just look at the planshape to accomodation compromise to sort out the likely performance. I have owned a Dufour 36 and a 38 and now a 43 Jeanneau Deck Saloon. I chose them for their accomodation but was pleasantly surprised at how well the Dufour 38 sailed but it still would not point as well as a Sigma 36 or 38. Hence current boat has a 75hp engine but I still get just a big a kick as others when the engine is turned off and I am creaming on a good reach.

Everyone make their own choice of this set of compromises but there are no wrong choices only differing priorities.
 
There are a lot of well maintained older boats around that will not require any greater annual attention than a more modern effort.
Consider the following: There are now a lot of MWBs about. The Manky White Boat started life as a charter mule, has had five owners is tatty below, was thrashed in mid life and has been neglected ever since. It's engine, sails, rig and furnishings are knackered, though it is only 12 years old.
In terms of space, what are you moving up from? If you say (for example) that a She 31 is not very roomy, I have the perfect cure........go for a two week holiday in a Nordic Folkboat!
 
Was on a 2006 (I think) Bavaria 36 a few weeks back. Loads of room down below, perfect for living aboard. Hot/cold running water, shower in the heads, large galley.. well kitted out for sailing too.

While I was at the helm we hit nearly 12knots surfing. The owner refused to believe the boat was capable but somebody else then clocked it again, and the day after we used the marked mile at St Albans head to check the log was accurate - it was.
 
I would start with your budget...... you need to decide how much you wish to spend....

Then you need to decide just how much space you want....

2 cabins? 3 Cabins? 1 head or 2 etc.......

Now, not all awb's are created equal.... as pointed out the more racier end of the market can be excellent sailors... Elan 333 is great, but fairly dubious build quality.... (I had more problems in one week on one than in 4 years in our current boat...)
The Bavaria 36 apre 2002 up to about 2006 was a very quick boat, and if kitted with a deep keel and a FB main pointed very well.... had one out for two weeks and thought she sailed really well.... nearly as well as the Elan.... The 37 and 38's from 98-2005 are not in the same league, much more chunky and pedestrian.... Build quality on the 36 was indifferent though, and I was never able to get comfortable in the cockpit. She also has a fairly low avs of around 119'.....

If you are looking Contessa (And who wouldnt be!) WILD CALL, a very late one in excellent condition, is for sale in Ipswich (Clarke and Carter (?)) for around 51k...(recently reduced) /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

If you are thinking late 90's, say 35 feet, then I would be saying, Dufour 35, Bavaria 350 (Mid 90's) Bavaria 34 (1999) , Elan 333, a bit bigger I would say a Sun oddysey 40........or 36 (The 37 drives like a truck..) Get a deep keel, and a Fully battened main......

Something a bit smaller.... HR 312 from early 90's........

Or how about a Rival 36? couple of those kicking around should get one for mid 60's k?

/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
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Not a fair comparison. These people are voting with their own money for their own benefit!



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What do you think voters do?
 
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Is it even possible...am I wasting my time /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

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Quite possibly. Any dispassionate analysis would tell you that manufactured products like boats get better all the timne, but nevertheless there are lots of people who think that their old mussel drudger (or whatever) is the best boat ever made and everything has gone downhill since then. If thats your real frame of mind, then you will not be happy with chosing a modern boat.

Boats arent about logic - who would ever buy one if they were logical about the cost or the transport merits. They are about emotions, and dreams. So buy what grabs you and enjoy it rather than what you talk yourself into thinking you need.

And you need to recognise the fun you have pottering with the boat. No good buying a brand new boat that needs nothing doing to it if you have in the past enjoyed doing jobs on your old boat. Truth to tell there are many old boat owners whose real hobby is boat repair not sailing
 
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