Big Brother Coastguard

[Cornishman]

Re: Secrecy...

Because my vote is my business - not yours

Are you volunteering to count the few millions of hands, and check that we only put one hand up?

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[steve_cronin]

They have nothing to hide if you're not doing something dangerous. The people must be allowed to see what the toffs are up to. It's the people's world now and if we want to take that boat off of you, we will do. Who do you think you are roaming around all over the seas able to do what you like when the rest of us have to conform and only escape the monotony by watching Eastenders?

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[Robin]

Actually I had intended both halves to go off.

Oh yes the case presented sounds oh so reasonable. The fact is we have a Data Protection Act supposedly to protect us that is not effective as it is. I have an unlisted Fax number and yet receive unsolicited junk faxes daily (faxes not voice calls) - how can this be? We receive 20 -30 junk emails weekly on each of 3 accounts. Someone is getting hold of information that I do not want them to have and which mostly they should not have anyway under present legislation.

This is part of a series of proposals where LOTS of government depts are trying to justify getting in on the act, from local councils upwards.

60 million people in the UK should not have to accept this for 250 potential uses (HMCG figs) This nut would prefer not to be cracked with a Government sledgehammer.


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[tillergirl]

This has got to be a flight of nonsense and for a start Blunkett is the Home Sec not Jack Straw (ain't he trying to start a war somewhere)

The law on the interception of telephone calls and e-mails is very tight and it is only permissable by the Police and other law enforcement agencies in the case of Serious Crime (that means something for which you would get at least seven years upon first conviction) I'll ignore terrorism. It has to be authorised by a Secretary of State ie the Home Secretary and does not get delegated to a civil servant. It requires a great chunk of money to do and lots and lots of time. There is a massive chunk of unfeasibility about this - it's got to be a spoof. As for accessing communication data - that's who rang who for how long - you need an army of anal;ysts to make any sense of any significant data. It's nonsense - got to be a spoof but not the funniest.

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[Oldhand]

That's why they want to muscle in on your communications - to find out if your organising a booze-up so they know what boat, quayside or marina pontoon to target with an appropriate law enforcement officer with his breathalyser. They will then point out how the availability of communiucation infromation has allowed them to use law enforcing resources efficiently!

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[kgi]

actually you could always encrypt your faxes/ e mails, pgpi.org is a good place to start, lets make the b....rs work for it, vice president blair has got to remember,.. the country voted him in....they sure as hell can vote him out!!!!!!!!!!.........keith

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[charles_reed]

The only justifiable power

to "eavesdrop", that they should have is that of being able to locate a cellular phone caller.

We do suffer from too much government, for all of which we have to pay.

I'm not really too bothered about the privacy aspect, they can always find ways round the rules if they want, I'm concerned about an ever-spiralling tax bill for doing things in yours and my names which are totally irrelevant.

Still I suppose it keeps the unemployed % down.

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[HMCG]

I have been away froim the forum for a while due to my move to the sunny south coast.

I must say that I am shocked at what some of youa re saying. If you had read the press release and information sheet you would see that the MCA will be able to access your telephone records IE we will be abel to tell when you were on the phone and to whom. we will not be listening in on these calls. With email as far as I understand it we will only be able to find out who the owner of an email account will be.

Quote from the MCA information page
<font color=blue>
The information that the MCA is seeking access to, under very carefully controlled conditions,
is limited to subscriber details for telephone and e mail accounts, and itemised telephone bills.
Additionally, and for search and rescue purposes only, the cell identification for a mobile
telephone in use which will assist in locating a caller who may be in difficulties.
The MCA will NOT be authorised to intercept the contents of any communications, which
includes telephone conversations and e mails.
</font color=blue>

As I see it we will not be able to obtain a great deal. The location of mobile phones is a good thing. So often we do get calls from people not knowing where they are. It is not sinister it is just using the technology for the benefit of the general public.

When you call on your VHF radio we know which area you are in and in many cases we use direction finding equipment to provide a reasonable position. What is the difference with mobile phones>>>none.

The others (email and phone records) will be used for inforcement issues. You all complain about bridge officers not posting a good lookout. This may prove that he was on the phone at the time he hit you. or when he ran aground.

Once again I have to say that I think you are either paranoid or have something to hide. I don't mind CCTV watching me in town, or being able to track my position on my mobile phone, why should I. I am going about my daily lawful business and frankly don't think anyone really cares about what I am doing.


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These are my own thoughts not the MCA's

 

[bob_tyler]

Didn't know that Scotland had a south coast, or was sunny!

Welcome back anyway, good to see you again.



<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by bob_tyler on 15/03/2003 18:29 (server time).</FONT></P>

 

[Robin]

Welcome to the South Coast

It's another link in the chain, someone wants the ability to link an email address to a real address, to look at an itemised phone bill, to locate a mobile phone etc. and to be have the right to do so anytime they want. There is no safeguard that a court order or whatever is required first, they can just go ahead and do it.

So now someone could look at my itemised phone bill, obtain addresses for the numbers I called and therefore in a short space of time have a complete list of all my customers ( I work from home). Wonderful isn't it - of course you can argue they wouldn't do that, why should they, BUT IT COULD. OK so Joe is a Coastguard (or any one of all the others asking for these rights) and his brother in law just happens to be my main competitor in business and he's having a bit of a bad time of late, so when he asks Joe to help Joe does and in 10 minutes has given him information that is invaluable. Wouldn't happen?

Problem is everyone is seeking the rights to do this, from local councils, Inland Revenue, Police, HMCG, Customs,etc etc etc, and any one of these could have someone like Joe the CG who could get my customer list should he feel inclined.

Paranoid - absolutely!

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[HMCG]

OK I have updated my profile. I am now working in Sussex. What a wonderful part of the world. It has rained almost every day since I arrived. Must have brought it with me.



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These are my own thoughts not the MCA's

 

[HMCG]

Ok I take your point however in the service there will be probably only 10 people with access to the information. Do you know how many people work for BT/orange/O2/Vodafone/one2one etc. They also have access to your details!!!

If you are going to be paranoid you have alot more to worry about.

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These are my own thoughts not the MCA's

 

[Robin]

Thanks, but that's 10 more than there are at present plus 10 more in every local council office, tax office, etc etc. I don't mind if it is under close control ie via a court order or whatever, but available as a routine is a big No No. Plus as time goes by the 10 will become 20 and then 30 and of course each one will have a secretary and it will save time if they can have access as well.......




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[Birdseye]

We can expect the Govt (incompetence excepted) to protect us against the likes of Orange misusing their info. But who protects us against the government? And who is actually more likely to want to control us? Or to have lots of bodies to listen in?



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[bigmart]

I love those "If youve got nothing to hide why not throw away your freedom" types. They all seem to think that the staus quo will last forever & all in the garden is rosy.They should remeber that one mans terrorist is anothers freedom fighter. Just because you agree, or are prepared to put up with the current regime, it doesn't mean that three parliaments down the line we won't be living under a Facist Dictatorship. Remember some people would have it that we already are.

Martin

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[HMCG]

we could just post it on the internet or on the backs of buses. I am so glad you think so highly of our service.

The best way to get around these things if you are unhappy is to get rid of your phone and email.

There you go problem solved.



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These are my own thoughts not the MCA's

 

[HMCG]

No offence meant - of course NM

NM

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These are my own thoughts not the MCA's

 

[bigmart]

I t seems to me that we have sparred on this type of point before. Your points in this post seem to forget the social & official pressure that society places on us to use technology. DSC & the crap information on BBC weather forecasts are just a couple examples.

It just seems that Government & its agencies, in this case HMCG, seem hell bent on over regulation. I thing you know that we will never agree on this point.

Martin

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[Cornishman]

>crap information on BBC weather forecasts<
Careful, you are in danger of shooting the messenger. Should that not read "crap Met Office weather forecasts, broadcast by the BBC" (and many commercial radio and TV stations, HMCG, etc)

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[bigmart]

You may well be right but the effect is the same. We are forced into using technology to get the information we need to sail & perform many other day to day tasks & then this is used to monitor us. Anyone got some conspiracy theories. If I were really paranoid I could have a field day.

Martin

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