Beware “Indulgence” (of Orwell)

[johnalison]

Its game over if you catch up with another sailboat working to windward as you'll never get past. Stop for sandwiches instead!

I sailed engineless sailing boats on the Broads for many years and commented on it in another thread. The best fun was a thirty-something foot four-berth Lady class, with which we could occupy vast tracts of water. Catching another sailing boat tacking was usually relatively easy since I generally had more skill, being used to racing Fireflies, but if push came to shove you always had the consolation that it wasn't your own property.

 

[Marmalade]

Actually I think I need to put up a Ball, Diamond, Ball up but I need a bigger mast. I suspect a few peeps thought I was odd on Tuesday - mind you I am odd on any day of the week

I think you should - you certainly have the right to when surveying - we have a BDB day-shape made up for the tow-boat when we're laying and recovering moorings - just lets people know that you're not able to manoeuvre normally...

 

[Slowboat35]

I have sailed motor free on on the Broards, its a real laugh going upwind. Plenty of clueless folk motoring every which way but the rule is very simple. All none commercial motor traffic gives way to sail. When sailing upwind it is essential that you almost ignore all motor yachts, treat them as an extension to the riverbank and tack short, but only as short as you HAVE to.

The problem is that some of the motor boats will zig zag and try to get down either side. You must ignore them when they do this, it is the ultimate game of chicken! but they are fairly soft if you do hit them.

I don't know how these rules translate to other rivers.

I find most motorboats on the Broads are pretty good and indecision on their course is usually corrected by some vigourous pointing - but what drives me nuts is the mainly hireboat fools - though some of the Brundall Offshore Power-boat Squadron are shamefully not immune to this - who have evidently been told to stick to the RH bank regardless and who didn't listen to the rest of the brief. So there you are pinching all you can to make the next bend and brushing the reeds on the portside and some oncoming cruiser refuses to move off his bank to give you space and then shouts at you when you fnally are forced to tack at the last minute to avoid a collision.
Still, wonderful place to sail.

ps. Anyone want a beautiful 42 ft trad Broads yacht? A friend of mine has his up for sale for silly money.

 

[tillergirl]

Can I ask how you made it up Marmalade please?

 

[Slowboat35]

For a cabin or cuddy type mobo a couple of hard plastic balls from a cheap toyshop and a funnel all mounted on a broomstick do the job petty well, or fill two softer plastic balls with builders foam and bore them out for the stick.

 

[tillergirl]

I suppose that is in keeping with the workboat 'Sea Dog'! My pennant staff is made out of the remains of TG's old ash boathook (Embarassment thingy)

When Gladys is allowed to come on board again I will ensure he swings the lead whenever someone is there. It would just be for show cos he would never be able to count the knots on the lead line given that he is IT trained.

(I am making silly comments because I have just found my blunder that has been holding me up doing the reduction process for 8 hours. All my blunder. All by myself. So obvious nobody would have thought of it! (Embarassment thing)

 

[Leighb]

Risking starting a colreg debate, but would rule 9a (narrow channels) be applicable in this situation?


I guess it depends if a river is a “narrow channel”. Not sure about this, the colreg does not give a definition of a “narrow channel”

As far as I can see the only applicable Rule is 18, power driven vessel shall keep out of the way of a vessel under sail. Looking at Rule 9 “Indulgence” was in breach of 9a anyway as she was on the Port side of the channel. It does not look as though, prior to her stupid course alteration, that any risk of collision existed, so no action needed by either vessel.
Sound like an idiot, I will watch out for him.

 

[MikeBz]

Better stamp collecting, that is quite harmless

You've never had a paper cut?

 

[Gitane]

As far as I can see the only applicable Rule is 18, power driven vessel shall keep out of the way of a vessel under sail. Looking at Rule 9 “Indulgence” was in breach of 9a anyway as she was on the Port side of the channel. It does not look as though, prior to her stupid course alteration, that any risk of collision existed, so no action needed by either vessel.
Sound like an idiot, I will watch out for him.

Yes, I initially thought rule 18 would have applied. But then when I looked up the text, see below, it says that rule 18 applies only if rule 9 does not apply.

Rule 18 Responsibilities between vessels . Except where Rules 9, 10 and 13 otherwise require: (a). A power-driven vessel underway shall keep out of the way of: (i). a vessel not under command; (ii). a vessel restricted in her ability to manoeuvre; (iii). a vessel engaged in fishing; (iv). a sailing vessel........

So, I guess from this that all vessels, motor or sail, should keep to starboard of a narrow channel. The questions is whether a river is a "narrow channel", the colregs does not define this. However the Inland Waterways Association interpret a narrow channel to include a river, see my previous post.

So, in this case I don't know if rule 9 applies or not. Is a river a "narrow channel" and does rule 9 apply to all vessels, or just motor vessels? What happens if you need to beat up a river, how can you stay on the starboard side then?

Anyway, I always find it interesting when you look deeper into the Colregs you sometimes end up more confused than when you started. Perhaps it's better that I stop looking and just focus on sailing!

 

[Old Harry]

Yes, I initially thought rule 18 would have applied. But then when I looked up the text, see below, it says that rule 18 applies only if rule 9 does not apply.





So, I guess from this that all vessels, motor or sail, should keep to starboard of a narrow channel. The questions is whether a river is a "narrow channel", the colregs does not define this. However the Inland Waterways Association interpret a narrow channel to include a river, see my previous post.

So, in this case I don't know if rule 9 applies or not. Is a river a "narrow channel" and does rule 9 apply to all vessels, or just motor vessels? What happens if you need to beat up a river, how can you stay on the starboard side then?

Anyway, I always find it interesting when you look deeper into the Colregs you sometimes end up more confused than when you started. Perhaps it's better that I stop looking and just focus on sailing!

Is there any yacht racing on the river

 

[Just_sayin']

Motoring close to the port side of the Ramsholt fairway he would have comfortably passed about 10 - 15m on our stbd. side. However, at the last moment he turned hard to stbd. cutting close in front of us leaving us no option but to steer hard to stbd.

So many people have "liked" your post it must be me.

Surely he was on the starboard side of the channel passing starboard to starboard, he then turned hard to starboard to go port to port.

No? ???

 

[david_bagshaw]

nearly as good as being anchored over night , black ball up etc....
in the morning, hit by a rowing boat.
his comment " dont you look where you are going"
mine we are stopped, anchored.

is next said it all" no you are not , the water is going past"

 

[Hadenough]

just wonder if there are some out of practice people about. Last week I got a bollocking from a port vessel for standing on whilst I was on starboard ;-) and today I got a shouting at cos I was motor sailing out of Harwich, boat crossing was sailing, I thought he'd pass in front but as I started to alter to starboard anyway to pass behind to be sure.. he bore away a bit to pass behind me leaving me no option but to straighten up and bung the foot down to avoid the classic two men in a doorway scenario.

Did you have a motoring cone showing?

 

[Frayed Knot]

So many people have "liked" your post it must be me.

Surely he was on the starboard side of the channel passing starboard to starboard, he then turned hard to starboard to go port to port.

No? ???

No, and yes. He was on his port side of the fairway - my stbd. side. To be honest, I just want to forget about it now

 

[Amour]

Above mentioned yacht is moored up in wolves stone marina on ship finder

 

[Poecheng]

Many years ago running down the Crouch on the Burnham side of the river and (from memory) near the buoys close to the entrance to the Roach.
Small blue motorboat far away on the south side starts crossing the channel towards us. And gets closer. And closer. On a collision course. Keeps coming at us. It takes a moment to calibrate what is happening before my eyes: I cannot believe this he has completely changed course and is going to run us down when we are sailing. Had to turn sharp to port (and in towards the shallows) with sails in a mess as it motored over the water we would naturally have been.
I was completely puzzled as it was like an assassination attempt (at least the PWC when they come directly at you are going to turn off).
Looked around and realised he was simply going from one buoy to another like a join the dots and no one would get in his way (assuming he was even looking). They are living among us !

 

[Rosie1963]

This afternoon, sailing beautifully wing and wing up the Deben on our way home from our first mini cruise of the year, my wife and I had the misfortune to meet the above (unapologetically) named yacht; a large, 40 - 45’ grey hulled Hanse I think, motoring towards us - no sails set.
Motoring close to the port side of the Ramsholt fairway he would have comfortably passed about 10 - 15m on our stbd. side. However, at the last moment he turned hard to stbd. cutting close in front of us leaving us no option but to steer hard to stbd. ourselves, gybing all-standing, to avoid
T-boning him. We then gybed again to miss a moored boat. (We sail a heavy displacement 38 footer)
The skipper’s reaction was only to repeatedly bellow “Port to port!”
As an experienced cruising yachtsman for more than thirty years, as well as being an MCA licensed boatmaster working for many years on the river, I have never witnessed behaviour quite this bad - especially with such a large vessel involved.
As mentioned, I make no apology for naming this vessel and seriously urge caution from anyone sailing in its vicinity as the owner/skipper is dangerously incompetent, completely ignorant of the Col-Regs & is quite possibly deranged.
If anybody knows this person please, for everyone’s safety (and fewer spoiled days) urge him either to seek some training or to just take up golf instead of boating.

I experienced exactly this when running in over the bar goosewinged a few years back. Going in on the tide making a good 6knots over ground and all of a sudden a mahooosive Sunseeker, on the semi-plane, hugs the deep inshore line and starts hooting at me incessantly. There were very few things I could do except Jybe into the shore. He missed by about a metre and his equally mahooosive wash then twisted me around into a chinese gybe. As I looked up pondering how to clear the mess they had opened fully up we’re now powering out to sea. His family were on the aft sun deck making a variety of fingered gesticulations at me.

 

[LONG_KEELER]

Don't think there is much you can do about it.

I was searching for happiness beating out of the Orwell last season. Wide bit,
midweek, with the tide, loads of water , doing about 4 knots, and very few boats. I nearly got T Boned three times by large motoring yachts doing about hull speed . One even accused me of being the overtaking boat.

All it needed was a little dink to pass under my stern. It always seems to be
the bigger boats.

 

[xyachtdave]

I was beating up the Thames about a mile or two away from the flood barrier. Huge 70-80 ft Oyster approaching astern under power.

No worries, he’ll know we’re stand on and will either slow down a knot or two or alter course slightly.

Instead it applied full power (I didn’t realise they can do about 15 knots!) and crossed in front of us about a boat length ahead. Well a miss is a good as a mile, nothing to get excited about, having raced etc very tame.

However about 100 metres later it stopped dead in the way, raised it’s mainsail and the numerous crew appeared on deck for a photo opportunity of ‘sailing up the Thames‘ with the city in the back ground.

And then mainsail comes back down, crew go below and we repeat incident #1 a few minutes later.

Totally tragic, I was embarrassed for them!

 

[Praxinoscope]

IMHO all the above incidents just mirror the way society in the UK has moved since everyone was told they 'had rights' but forgot to point out with rights come responsibilities, and that good manners were a thing of the past.