Better a 15yo Jeanneau 45.1 or a 6yo Bavaria 42 Cruiser?

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haydude

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If they came for the same money and same specs would you rather buy a 15 years old Jeanneau 45.1 or a 6 years old Bavaria 42 Cruiser?

Go on, let's have the debate of the day! I value your opinion.
 
haydude said:
If they came for the same money and same specs would you rather buy a 15 years old Jeanneau 45.1 or a 6 years old Bavaria 42 Cruiser?

Go on, let's have the debate of the day! I value your opinion.
Click to expand...

There'll be a fair few bits and bobs coming to the end of their life on a 15 year old boat. I know I've got an 18 year old boat. And a 45' boat will have a lot of systems.

It's not going to be ideal on a 6yo boat, but it'll be easier on your wallet.
 
I thought to throw in my initial considerations:

Although the J is longer the inside space is similar because the older design have scooped transom and protruding bow (to simplify J looks like \_____\ whilst Bav looks like |_____|, hence shorter but with similar interior space and waterline). For that reason waterline length and hull speed are also very similar. I am surprised that the Bav weighs also the same as the J 45.1 actually a little more (weren't they supposed to be thinner and lighter?) considering that J's interiors are solid teak and hence quite heavy whilst Bav woodwork is definately lighter, I wonder where does all that weight come from?

Bavaria 42 Pros
SWMBO likes it a lot
Excellent interior space usage.
Newer, so less chances that something breaks

Bavaria 42 Cons
It is a Bavaria (?)
Inevitable crazing around stanchions due to poor design



Jeanneau 45.1 Pros
Solid boat (supposedly, but look at the findings above about weight)
Has inner forestay (good for additional tinkering with sailing stuff or to look from a distance as a seriously bigger boat)

Jeanneau 45.1 Cons
SWMBO says it is old fashion and does not like heads design
Older boat so many more things can go wrong
 
dt4134 said:
There'll be a fair few bits and bobs coming to the end of their life on a 15 year old boat. I know I've got an 18 year old boat. And a 45' boat will have a lot of systems.
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You are right, major things I thought about are:

- standing rigging
- running rigging
- sails
- engine (?) is 3500 hours concerning?
- at what age would I have to think about replacing the seacocks?
- and the hoses and pipework?

Anything else I am not thinking about?
 
haydude said:
You are right, major things I thought about are:

- standing rigging
- running rigging
- sails
- engine (?) is 3500 hours concerning?
- at what age would I have to think about replacing the seacocks?
- and the hoses and pipework?

Anything else I am not thinking about?
Click to expand...

Yes - you may as well give up and buy the one that swmbo wants. :)
 
On three occasions now I have bought a 10 to 15 year old boat - too tight to buy new and too daft to remember the previous experience. On all three I have had engine problems inc one replacement. All have needed new rigging, some running rig, some sails, new bits of internal hose and things like some replace or new electronics. 10 to 15 years is the working life of many boat bits.

If you manage to find a boat that I've sold where all this work has been done they youre well away. If you find a boat that I'm about to buy, walk away.:D

I wouldnt touch the 15 year old unless it had a refit and unless swmbo preferred it. After all you are comparing two awb's anyway - its not as if the older boat was an upmarket type.
 
haydude said:
Anything else I am not thinking about?
Click to expand...

The list is potentially nearly endless. Trying to think about what I've had to replace.

Batteries (engine + two big domestic batteries)
Sprayhood
Stack pack
Standing rigging
Water meter
Heads pump
4 sea cocks
halyards/sheets
gooseneck
fridge compressor
steering compass
dinghy
lifejackets
replaced some dodgy DIY electric wiring
blocks (could think of this as an upgrade as I replaced grotty old cruising blocks with harken but still spent about £400 on that.)
and numerous smaller bits & pieces and other things that I'll have missed.

What I've still got to replace:
Autohelm
Some instruments
Part of teak on bathing platform
re-upholstery
shower door
sails in a couple of years
and that's without thinking of improvements I'd like to make

I've been very lucky with the engine so far (touch wood)

Budget something like 25-30% of the purchase price for the first two or three years unless the boat you're buying has been really well maintained.
 
haydude said:
If they came for the same money and same specs would you rather buy a 15 years old Jeanneau 45.1 or a 6 years old Bavaria 42 Cruiser?

Go on, let's have the debate of the day! I value your opinion.
Click to expand...

Hi
I own a 18 year old Jeanneau and I would have no hesitation on recommending this marque over a modern Bavaria
Consider in ten years time you will still have a fast high quality boat "Please remember this boat was built in the time of lot of High quality boats from this company" that were built to a price not down to a price as now.

I am afraid as much as i admire the size and the modern appearance of the Bavaria having spent many years looking and even thinking about buying one. I do not think they would last 15 years with their flimsy interior fit out.
 
rtboss1 said:
I am afraid as much as i admire the size and the modern appearance of the Bavaria having spent many years looking and even thinking about buying one. I do not think they would last 15 years with their flimsy interior fit out.
Click to expand...

Now you have me really worried! My Bavaria is now 2/3rds of its way through your expected life - 7 years of that as a heavily used charter boat and I have still to find anything "flimsy" about the interior fit out except the cutlery drawer could do with new runners.

Why do people have to denigrate others' choices to justify their own? Is it an insecurity thing?

To the OP. There is no contest. You cannot compare a 15 year old boat with a 6 year old one. If you like the boat and you want a longer period of trouble free ownership and use, buy the Bavaria - you won't be disappointed, and you will have avoided the very long list of "cons" of an older boat, whatever its other merits. And if you don't want to be seen in a Bavaria buy a similar age/size Benny or Jenny.
 
Go for the younger boat. Bavarias are not bad; they had one error and that was with the keels of one model of racing boat. PERIOD.

My 13 yo Bav is still doing very well and sails rings around most Jeanneaus... but I would trade her for an equivalent well maintained Beneteau First 47.7.....:D:D
 
Monique said:
Go for the younger boat. Bavarias are not bad; they had one error and that was with the keels of one model of racing boat. PERIOD.

My 13 yo Bav is still doing very well and sails rings around most Jeanneaus... but I would trade her for an equivalent well maintained Beneteau First 47.7.....:D:D
Click to expand...

Is that because the majority of 13 year old Bav's had a good balance between sailing and accomadation characteristics ... unlike some of the newer ones?
 
You are quite correct.

Plus, because of the "swingy keels", my boat was a huge bargain in comparison. IMO, my Bav is a great vessel and far more boat for the moolah than some snot nosed sailing snob's view of what is considered a "pukka" sail vessel.

I am considered a mere upstart as I pass them with only my main.... :D:D

Their loss and my gain.:D:D
 
Forget Brands

Buy the yacht your wife likes. I did and I have never looked backed. One of the members of our club once told me "The most miserable time you will ever have is at sea with your wife when she is not happy". Can you imagine what this will be like for the entire time if you buy the Jeanneau and then everytime she sees a Bavaria she says "isn't that one of those nice Bavarias?"
 
Monique said:
Go for the younger boat. Bavarias are not bad; they had one error and that was with the keels of one model of racing boat. PERIOD.

My 13 yo Bav is still doing very well and sails rings around most Jeanneaus... but I would trade her for an equivalent well maintained Beneteau First 47.7.....:D:D
Click to expand...

Point of Order - I don't think they are that good a sailing boat, reasonable yes possibly better than some Jeanneaus that have a hull shape determined by the need for volume and the charter market but not all some of the older Jeanneaus were fast hulls.

In 1998 I bought a 36 Dufour Classic. In 2001 I bought a 38 Dufour Classic. Both were put in mixed charter fleets. Both went out in group charters with Bavarias. eg a sailing club would charter say 4 x 38' boats. The Dufour was always preferred as the better sailing boat. No axe to grind. I no longer have a Dufour but a Jeanneau. I seriously looked at Bavarias and thought them good boats and one of the best examples of value for money. I would have bought the Bavaria 38' instead of the Dufour on value in 2001 had it not been for the part-ex deal I was offerred (2 days after 911!)

The 43DS Jeanneau was bought for the corporate charter market due to its accomodation and I make no claims about its sailing ability - its reasonable but not outstanding (I really needed 46' for the internal volume that I have!). All boats are a compromise and I think I would prefer the Bavaria (due to its construction) to the Beneteau with its bonded waffle like inner moulding but the narrower hull shape of the benny means it will sail better.

I always think it sad that the name Bavaria brings out such a lot of prejudice from often ill informed people when they are good production boats that are fantastic value for money and have financially enabled so many to start sailing their own boat.
 
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Why do people have to denigrate others' choices to justify their own?



Sorry
I don't care what you like or want. There no way that a BEN or Jen of the eighties are as poorly made as a modern Bavaria . Bavaria`s of the nineties excepted,

I know from your previous posts your blind sided loyalty to Bavaria,IMO because you have one. and as said in my post I have consider buying one, but on being invited and paid to skipper numerous version of Bavaria as a bare boat yacht charter skipper from 36 - the new 55 cruiser , "please remember that I spend 20 weeks a year skippering" these cheaply made boats on average 200-300 hundred miles a week in the Cyclades in Greece .., the bits that fall off and the very poor standard of fitting out, has put me off ( Only as a long term user ) for a couple of sailing seasons its a very good boat
 
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I did not say your old boat was badly made. I know you have a blind loyalty to it as you own it!

However, that is not the point. My experience as an owner and watching the progress of whole fleets of Bavarias on charter over the last 10 years or so is that they are not "flimsy". The OP was asking which was a better buy - an older or newer boat. there isn't really a clear answer, other than an older boat is likely to need more expenditure than a newer one.

Over the last 5 years or so there have been several tests of second hand Bavarias (some of them ex-charter boats) by the yachting magazines and they have all been complimentary about how well they have stood up to hard use.

I can't comment about the latest designs as I have no direct experience, although like many people I don't find them immediately attractive!
 
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Tranona said:
I did not say your old boat was badly made. I know you have a blind loyalty


I do not want a silly argument .I do not have a blind loyalty to my boat just an opinion that in ten years time the Jeanneau 45 will still be a better boat than a 16 year old Bavaria will be.
Having skippered a few, have to say they are a fast boat not easily handled ,but very underrated
Click to expand...
 
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