Beta 20....starting problems......where to start looking??

[Matata]

Our Beta 20 is 10 years old. It has always started on the button. From cold, glow plugs for 5 seconds, no throttle, turn the key and it would start instantly, no misfires, nothing.....
Then over the weekend we did the same and rather than it snap into action it turned over with the starter and slowly lept into action as the starter turned it over faster and faster over say a ten second period, until the engine was running faster than the starter .Once running it ran faultlessly. It has happened twice, not consecutively. It had been standing for week and started on the turn of the key. Then 7 hours later it was reluctant to start, but did eventually.Again ran faultlessly. Thoughts from the panel would be appreciated where to start looking...Mmmmmm Ta Nik

 

[duncan99210]

Check the wirImg to the glow plugs, if they’re not getting energised then it’d lead to the sort of problems you’re having. No idea of how the Beta is set up but you may find a relay not working properly somewhere in the circuit.

 

[sailorman]

open the throttle to about 1/4 open

 

[VicS]

I agree ,

Open the throttle a little ( 1/3 ITYWF the manual says .... RTM!)

If its not cranking normally check the battery state of charge and the connections etc, incl the negative

If it is cranking normally check that the glowplugs are being energised ... no relay AFAIK

If not investigate the reason ... Ignition switch ?????

If they are disconnect the wiring and check each one for continuity (a head light bulb on a couple of leads from battery positive to each in turn should light )

 

[PaulRainbow]

Forget about opening the throttle, you've been starting the engine OK for years and this is a new problem. Your problem will almost certainly be caused by one of two things, glow plugs or fuel.

Glow plugs are the easiest to check, so do those first. using a test meter or light, start at the glow plugs and if they are not receiving power, check back along the circuits until you find the cause. If they are getting power, check that they are actually working. If they can easily be removed, do so, you can check them by holding a positive wire on the top connection and holding the body against a 12v negative connection, even the battery post. If any have failed i would replace them all.

If the glow plugs are working you will need to check every fuel and filter connection for a leak. If there is one it is likely to be tiny, use some kitchen roll to find it. Also, check the condition of the fuel filters.

 

[PaulRainbow]

open the throttle to about 1/4 open

After starting the engine for 10 years, and having this as a new fault, don't you think his starting procedure might be correct ?

 

[VicS]

Forget about opening the throttle, you've been starting the engine OK for years and this is a new problem. Your problem will almost certainly be caused by one of two things, glow plugs or fuel.

Glow plugs are the easiest to check, so do those first. using a test meter or light, start at the glow plugs and if they are not receiving power, check back along the circuits until you find the cause. If they are getting power, check that they are actually working. If they can easily be removed, do so, you can check them by holding a positive wire on the top connection and holding the body against a 12v negative connection, even the battery post. If any have failed i would replace them all.

If the glow plugs are working you will need to check every fuel and filter connection for a leak. If there is one it is likely to be tiny, use some kitchen roll to find it. Also, check the condition of the fuel filters.

No need to remove them to check them. Easier to do in situ

 

[lw395]

It wouldn't hurt to check tappets, stop control and throttle cable at the same time.

I would give it some throttle and see if that changes the way it starts. Unlikely, but easy to try and if so, maybe the stop cable is not returning fully because the cable needs oiling or something.

But most likely are fuel, glowplugs, cranking speed.

 

[VicS]

It wouldn't hurt to check tappets, stop control and throttle cable at the same time.

I would give it some throttle and see if that changes the way it starts. Unlikely, but easy to try and if so, maybe the stop cable is not returning fully because the cable needs oiling or something.

But most likely are fuel, glowplugs, cranking speed.

"Stop cable " ?????????????????

IYYWF to stop the engine you press the stop button,

 

[sailorman]

After starting the engine for 10 years, and having this as a new fault, don't you think his starting procedure might be correct ?

well with my Nanni i always give 1/4 throttle from cold, the ambient temp has now dropped so cold starting will be slower BUT i bow to your far superior knowledge

 

[sailorman]

No need to remove them to check them. Easier to do in situ

But RP is a marine electrician surely he knows best Vic

 

[VicS]

But RP is a marine electrician surely he knows best Vic

Why remove them just to check them when they can easily be checked in situ.

 

[DoubleEnder]

I had something similar on my Beta 20. It was a leak in the fuel line, just in front of the primary fuel filter.

 

[PaulRainbow]

No need to remove them to check them. Easier to do in situ

What, you're suddenly a diesel fitter ?

Your best suggestion was to open the throttle, ffs.

The lunatics have finally taken over the asylum.

 

[PaulRainbow]

But RP is a marine electrician surely he knows best Vic

No need to be a smart arse Roger, i've been working on engines since the early 70's, i still service a lot of boat engines every year.

He's been starting the damn thing for 10 years, it's hardly likely to be his starting procedure.

 

[BabaYaga]

I have the same engine, just a couple of years older.
During summer I normally don't use the glow plugs, the engine starts fine anyway. I always apply some throttle though, as others have suggested.
It is possible, I think, that the glow plugs have not been working properly for some time, but that this has only become an issue now when ambient temperature has dropped a bit.
I would check the multi-plug in the engine harness and put some contact spray into it.

 

[VicS]

What, you're suddenly a diesel fitter ?

Your best suggestion was to open the throttle, ***.

The lunatics have finally taken over the asylum.

Merely agreeing with an earlier suggestion to open the throttle a little and supporting the suggestion by pointing out that the Owners Manual says to open it by 1/3rd. If it starts with no throttle then all well and good but when it does not its a good time to try following the makers starting instructions

If there is a good technical reason for removing glow-plugs to test them rather than testing them in situ please lets be hearing it. No reason has become apparent to me in best part of 30 years of testing them in situ.
Sound technical explanations are useful, sarcastic remarks are not!

 

[PaulRainbow]

Merely agreeing with an earlier suggestion to open the throttle a little and supporting the suggestion by pointing out that the Owners Manual says to open it by 1/3rd. If it starts with no throttle then all well and good but when it does not its a good time to try following the makers starting instructions

He's been starting it for 10 years and it suddenly doesn't start as it once did. If all you can do is quote a sentence from the manual, best leave it to someone else, you don't have to answer all of the questions on here.

If there is a good technical reason for removing glow-plugs to test them rather than testing them in situ please lets be hearing it. No reason has become apparent to me in best part of 30 years of testing them in situ.
Sound technical explanations are useful, sarcastic remarks are not!

Perfectly possible to test in situ, i didn't say don't test in situ, or testing situ can't be done.

I said "If they can easily be removed" check them. The engine is only 10 years old, so likely to be the originals, which should unscrew easy enough. The wires will need to be taken off to test in situ, so removing is simply a case of unscrewing them, a few seconds work. The OP is clearly not experienced with engines, testing out of the engine is a simple and foolproof method that only requires a socket. There is a reasonable chance that one or more have failed, so testing them out of the engine is halfway to changing them.

Surely you can find something better to do than to pick peoples posts apart, make stupid comments or correct posters spelling/grammar ?

 

[Ammonite]

If the starter is turning over as quickly as it normally does it sound like either the glow plugs or an air leak as others have said. I always start mine with some throttle but if it's worked for 10 years is unlikely to be the problem here. If you suspect the starter is struggling and the colder weather / thicker oil certainly isn't going to help you can use a set of jump leads to quickly elimate any problems with the battery cables. To test the negative side connect the lead from the battery negative to the engine block or mount and try starting the engine. Then remove the negative lead and repeat the test with the battery positive connected to the starter motor positive terminal. This is for a negative earth setup.

It may not be the answer in the case but it's a useful tip if you think the starter may be at fault.

I've just had to replace the negative cable on mine and in this case it was the non tinned cable that had started to break down inside the insulation rather than the terminals. Visually the cable looked fine and the engine would start when warm but had started needing both the domestic and starter batteries together when cold

 

[sailorman]

He's been starting it for 10 years and it suddenly doesn't start as it once did. If all you can do is quote a sentence from the manual, best leave it to someone else, you don't have to answer all of the questions on here.



Perfectly possible to test in situ, i didn't say don't test in situ, or testing situ can't be done.

I said "If they can easily be removed" check them. The engine is only 10 years old, so likely to be the originals, which should unscrew easy enough. The wires will need to be taken off to test in situ, so removing is simply a case of unscrewing them, a few seconds work. The OP is clearly not experienced with engines, testing out of the engine is a simple and foolproof method that only requires a socket. There is a reasonable chance that one or more have failed, so testing them out of the engine is halfway to changing them.

Surely you can find something better to do than to pick peoples posts apart, make stupid comments or correct posters spelling/grammar ?

Just a thought, perhaps the OP has adopted the totally wrong start up procedure these past 10 years :encouragement: