Best Yacht Designer in the GRP Era

[Tranona]

Are 'better boats' ones that you would'nt want to risk in shallow waters & that are impractical in many other ways? It clearly depends on what you want to use your boat for.

I wonder how many of the modern boats we see being built will be able to boast anything like that!Very very few I suspect.

Exactly. if using a boat in shallow waters is what you want and you are not bothered about sailing ability then fine. Just like me with my Eventide which I have had for 35 years. However would never claim, whatever its other virtues that it is a good "sailing" boat. Shallow draft, heavy boats will never sail as well as deeper draft lighter boats.

Despite its popularity in some parts of the UK and other parts of the world where there is an abundance of shallow water, it is still a minority interest as the vast majority of the world has access to deep water to play around in.

Of course "modern" boats will still be around for as long as old warhorses like Macwesters. It all depends on whether owners are prepared to keep on using them.

 

[Nicholas123]

C s ROY started working with Westerly I think.From my point of view he was not making any ground breaking designs but producing a glass fibre Hilliard type, the family boat.Having sailed a 26 I was not bold over but apparently the 27 is a good sailer.Having looked at various Macs to buy I bought a Vega but if I had found a 27 with a good sensible interior I would have bought it.The little 22 footer I found to be a great sailer.

It's funny you should say that because I was looking at one last night online & again it is different to mine.Infact they all seem to be different in so many ways.Much more variety say than a centaur.......Still a bloody site more room than a Vega I would have thought.
One of the things I love about mine (there are many things in reality) is it's roomyness & internal layout. :encouragement:

 

[Wansworth]

Having had a trial sail in the 26 and been aboard two other 26s ompleted by their owners I found that the Vega offered four proper berths which where comfortable and better headroom and a better sailing reputation.I am not keen on the dinette arrangement which I had also seen in the two centaurs I had been on.... the Vega is more of a sea boat than the Mac 26.......but apparently the 27 is a much better boat performance wise.

 

[Nicholas123]

Exactly. if using a boat in shallow waters is what you want and you are not bothered about sailing ability then fine. Just like me with my Eventide which I have had for 35 years. However would never claim, whatever its other virtues that it is a good "sailing" boat. Shallow draft, heavy boats will never sail as well as deeper draft lighter boats.

Despite its popularity in some parts of the UK and other parts of the world where there is an abundance of shallow water, it is still a minority interest as the vast majority of the world has access to deep water to play around in.

Of course "modern" boats will still be around for as long as old warhorses like Macwesters. It all depends on whether owners are prepared to keep on using them.

I bought mine for all round ability. I would'nt want to be limited to just an offshore yacht when most of the fun it seems to me is in creeks & estuaries that I visit.

Modern boats with their balsa cored decks.Thin build layup & keels that are totally impractical.No thankyou,there is far too much to go wrong.
It may be possible to keep them going a long time but I doubt it would be allied to use so much as labour intensive (& expensive) maintenance

 

[Nicholas123]

Having had a trial sail in the 26 and been aboard two other 26s ompleted by their owners I found that the Vega offered four proper berths which where comfortable and better headroom and a better sailing reputation.I am not keen on the dinette arrangement which I had also seen in the two centaurs I had been on.... the Vega is more of a sea boat than the Mac 26.......but apparently the 27 is a much better boat performance wise.

I agree with you about the dinette business & the performance. I doubt I could stomach a Macwester 26.

 

[Tranona]

I bought mine for all round ability. I would'nt want to be limited to just an offshore yacht when most of the fun it seems to me is in creeks & estuaries that I visit.

Modern boats with their balsa cored decks.Thin build layup & keels that are totally impractical.No thankyou,there is far too much to go wrong.
It may be possible to keep them going a long time but I doubt it would be allied to use so much as labour intensive (& expensive) maintenance

You really have a very strange view of other boats. Makes you wonder how all the tens of thousands of people who own boats that are different from yours manage if they are so impractical.

Of course your boat suits your aspirations and preferences. That is why we buy things.

 

[Nicholas123]

You really have a very strange view of other boats. Makes you wonder how all the tens of thousands of people who own boats that are different from yours manage if they are so impractical.

Of course your boat suits your aspirations and preferences. That is why we buy things.

I can't see anything strange about not wanting one of the modern fin keel configurations that are impractical in shallow waters & make you so reliant on mariners/boat yards.I sail to get away from it all & don't want to be dependant on others.
What is a good yacht designer,surely one that sets you free?

 

[Wansworth]

One designer who has not been mentioned that applied a great deal of new thought was the designer and builder of Chay Blythe first yacht he entered in the ST rtwr a 30 footer,,,, the name escapes me.

 

[JimBrown]

One designer who has not been mentioned that applied a great deal of new thought was the designer and builder of Chay Blythe first yacht he entered in the ST rtwr a 30 footer,,,, the name escapes me.

R.A.G. Nierop - Kingfisher 30

 

[Strolls]

How true.

Would love to know how boats actually come to fruition from the designers board.

Have some boats come into being from a designer selling the idea to a manufacturer ?

And how many manufacturers give a brief to a designer after finding a gap in the market ?

Also, how much of a fight is it for a designer to hang on to his dream ?

Does a designer sometimes take a cut of every unit sold as opposed to just a design job ?

You should read Yacht Design According To Perry - he addresses all these questions, discussing numerous of his commissions, how they came about, and his relationship with the owner. He has also blogged about Ta Chaio, Hans Christian and his visits to Taiwan.

• http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/007146557X
• http://perryboat.sail2live.com

I believe it is common for the designer to be paid by the hull, as a percentage of the build cost, or at least it was so in the past. I have no idea if this practice extends to AWB's built in the thousands.

There is currently litigation between Bruce Kirby and Laser International over design royalties. I think he claims he should be paid by the hull, and they claim he sold the rights outright, a couple of decades ago. Presumably it can be done either way.

 

[Concerto]

R.A.G. Nierop - Kingfisher 30

The Kingfisher 30 was my father's first yacht. He bought it in 1965 from the factory in Poole as it seemed the modern material to use. Looking back at it now it was a terrible design of yacht that had massive weather helm. Sailing was very slow, I remember going up the East Coast with a Nich 32 and a Twister and we kept on having to motor sail to keep up with them on all points of sail. The interior was all moulded sections, but not very pleasing to look at - but easy to keep clean. I know his boat still exists and owners love them, but please do not rate this deigner/builder as one the best.

 

[Wansworth]

It needs a thread dedicated to the best designer who applied his skills to the then new material as opposed to a catch all thread.

 

[doug748]

I have and inkling that Chay Blyth sailed a Kingfsher in the first Whitbread.

Fair doos, he got a far as South Africa but I don't think he was happy with his choice.

 

[doug748]

It needs a thread dedicated to the best designer who applied his skills to the then new material as opposed to a catch all thread.

That is why I like the Tord Sunden nomination.

He designed the Folkboat (well I think he did) and what an inspiration to others that proved to be.

He then redesigned it in plastic in 1967 and arguably made an even better job of the thing.

 

[Wansworth]

I have and inkling that Chay Blyth sailed a Kingfsher in the first Whitbread.

Fair doos, he got a far as South Africa but I don't think he was happy with his choice.

It was in the Sunday Times race that ROBIN kj won pre whitbread

 

[michael_w]

You should read Yacht Design According To Perry - he addresses all these questions, discussing numerous of his commissions, how they came about, and his relationship with the owner. He has also blogged about Ta Chaio, Hans Christian and his visits to Taiwan.

• http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/007146557X
• http://perryboat.sail2live.com

I believe it is common for the designer to be paid by the hull, as a percentage of the build cost, or at least it was so in the past. I have no idea if this practice extends to AWB's built in the thousands.

There is currently litigation between Bruce Kirby and Laser International over design royalties. I think he claims he should be paid by the hull, and they claim he sold the rights outright, a couple of decades ago. Presumably it can be done either way.

I was given Bob Perry's book for Christmas. It's a facinating read and thoroughly recommended.

 

[dk]

The Discovery was originally intended to be a top of the range Westerly, but they went broke before bringing it online.

Eh? The Ron Holland-designed Discovery 56 was an entirely new project initiated by John Charnley. Nothing to do with WY.

 

[Kukri]

Ray Wall

http://sailboatdata.com/view_designer.asp?designer_id=264

Another vote for Ray Wall. He isn’t better known because, as the first designer for Camper and Nicholson’s not to be born a Nicholson, he wisely kept a low profile. But when anyone mentions “Nicholson handling” they mean “Ray Wall handling”.

I will amend this to add that those designers in the early GRP era whose designs moved away from wood forms to
Take advantage of the new material and whose designs have stood the test of time have a claim to
at least be on the short list. Ray Wall would be one such.

 

[Fr J Hackett]

On a similar basis, I worship at the feet of Chuck Paine and Oliver Lee.

I wonder, though, if there have ever been any bad designers. There have been bad designs (the shroud and keel attachments on a Centaur) and there have been failed designs (the GT35) but have any dud designers ever made it commercially?

For me Bob Perry and Bill Creelock are high on the list.

 

[lw395]

For me Bob Perry and Bill Creelock are high on the list.

Of dud designers?
I'm no fan of Crealock canoe stern boats, but many people like them and buy them, if designing them paid his bills because people wanted the boats, that's successful design work from my point of view.
It's a concept I don't admire, done to a good standard.