Best yacht battery

[[70521]]

You maybe right saying that wet cell is better than AGMs for long term high consumption liveaboards like yourself, but this thread is not about that. I would suggest that most UK sailors have FLAs because they are economical and for the overall light use they get will last more than 5 years. Going AGM is a big step up from this, particularly if you have split charging and a dedicated start battery, all for very little more money and substantially less than your setup, which frankly is wasted on most boats.

I'd be interested to hear what @geem 's power consumption is. Along with his power set up.

My calculations on this summers trip, 33 days away, was a maximum of 75 AH per day when using the autohelm for 24 hours more usually 50AH and 5 AH when at anchor. My house capacity is 390AH giving about 200AH usable power. Over the winter I am fitting a Hydrovane that will eliminate the autohelm and reduce my consumption by about 50 AH per 24 hours under way. While I have a fridge onboard it is rarely switched on as I don't drink cold beer.

 

[BabaYaga]

AGMs can have a place on a boat but not for the reasons you describe in my view. They are likely to last less time than open cell wet batteries.
Unless you purchased true deep cycle AGM batteries then you have car batteries that are very unlikely to have a deeper discharge potential than a standard non AGM car battery.
...
If you want to waste money buy deep cycle AGM batteries.

I find your statements a bit sweeping and also somewhat contradictory.
Let's take Exides DUAL range as an example. These are 'leisure' batteries, aimed at the marine and caravan markets. But there are two versions, sealed wet and AGM.
Exide DUAL - Marine Caravan & Leisure Battery | Exide
I think it is very clear from the graph that you can expect a far greater number of cycles and/or a deeper degree of discharge from the AGM version, compared to the sealed wet version.
Unfortunately the graph says nothing about capacity loss as the battery cycling proceeds.
You also mention 'true deep cycle AGM', which you seem to rate higher than other AGMs, but still a waste of money.
Having recently switched from wet sealed 'leisure' batteries to DC AGM I have looked a bit into the details and found that the superior performance of DC AGM in terms of allowed depth of discharge and increased number of cycles may well justify their higher price (approx. 2,5 times).
If you look again at the specification of the wet sealed Exide DUAL battery you will find that their recommended depth of discharge is only around 40 percent. If you were to regularly discharge them as low as 80 percent DOD, the number of cycles you would get out of them would be very low indeed, less than 100, according to the graph.
That could be compared to the expected cycle life of the Leoch DC AGMs that I switched to, where the number of expected cycles at 80 percent DOD is over 600 (if you accept a capacity loss of 50 percent) or (more realistically) 550 cycles at an accepted capacity loss of 20 percent.

 

[Tranona]

I have done similar sums and I usually go away for 2-3 days or just overnight with typically 6-8 hours sailing with all systems on and fridge on overnight. Maybe 50-60AH a day and a battery bank of 285. A couple of hours motoring puts back in 30AH+ so I usually end up plugging into shorepower when I get back. If I went away for longer periods or sailed more (particularly at night) I would look at adding solar increasing size of house bank or reducing consumption, mainly fridge.

 

[Porthandbuoy]

And if you want to be an early adopter with deep pockets:-
12V 100Ah Lead Crystal Battery

 

[PaulRainbow]

The thread title is "Best Yacht Battery", but the actual question asked was :

I am going to change my 2 x 110 ah batteries. The system has a change over switch and the one selected covers both starting and all services.
The present ones are rated at C20 and 1000 mca
Any thoughts on best battery options

There isn't a "one solution fits all" answer to the thread title, but there are very limited solutions to the question. The OP made his choice and it was the correct one, considering his setup.

 

[geem]

If there is anything to learn from this thread - and all the others on the subject it is that simplistic sweeping statements like this contribute nothing.

You do tend to look at everything from your perspective and show little understanding of how other people use their boats.

My requirements (like most other coastal and short passage sailors) are very different from yours and AGMs, particularly the sort now common in cars are well suited to our pattern of use. Short periods of intensive use with relatively poor recharging followed by long periods of inactivity. The characteristics of the stop start batteries (EFM or AGM) compared with FLAs such as "leisure batteries" are faster charge acceptance, low self discharge rates and longer duty cycles - 3-4 times overall "life " according to Exide who a big players in this field. Because of the high volume production they cost little more than Leisure batteries (£120 for approx 100AH compared with £90) and less than half the price of "marine" AGMs such as Lifeline.

You maybe right saying that wet cell is better than AGMs for long term high consumption liveaboards like yourself, but this thread is not about that. I would suggest that most UK sailors have FLAs because they are economical and for the overall light use they get will last more than 5 years. Going AGM is a big step up from this, particularly if you have split charging and a dedicated start battery, all for very little more money and substantially less than your setup, which frankly is wasted on most boats.

As to life. The Red Flash in my Morgan is the original from 2003 and has never let me down. The only maintenance it gets is a trickle charge if I leave it more than a month without use, which is only 2 or 3 times a year. The Exide stop start batteries in my boat are all the originals from 2015 and I would be disappointed if they did not go for more than 10 years. I plug into shorepower only if the resting voltage drops below 12.7 which happens either when I have been away for 2 or 3 days sailing with little motoring or a couple of times in the winter.

The original question was "Best Yacht Battery" to which the only sensible answer is first determine your pattern of usage, then match to the type of battery and charging system needed and finally choose the best brand based on cost. Of course within each of those 3 stages there is a lot of variability and the individual needs to do their own research to understand the choices. Not easy and of course there is no one definitive answer at each stage. To my mind though the first 2 stages are far more important than the last and the ones where you can often justify different choices.

Worth a read What is a Deep Cycle Battery? - Marine How To

 

[Tranona]

Worth a read What is a Deep Cycle Battery? - Marine How To

I know all that - but really not appropriate for the typical yacht usage in the UK which is what the OP (and many others do). Little point in having expensive batteries when their benefits are of little value as your pattern of usage does not use what the extra money is buying. Exactly the same reason why most of us don't have 16 ton boats loaded up with all the necessary gear to live all year round in the Caribbean. Most UK boats are weekend toys and are equipped as such. Of course once you start doing things more demanding you adjust your operating systems to suit the new requirements.

Remember 30 years ago most coastal sailors had 2 simple 100AH batteries and a 45 amp alternator (if they were lucky) and managed just fine - no fridges, no hungry radar and autopilots etc. Now the sort of set up as i described is typical of newer boats in the 30-40' range and works well - and many older boats are upgraded to similar levels as owners fit goodies with higher power demands.

Not sure why you seem to have so much difficulty in following the explanations and implying that you know something that others don't.

 

[rotrax]

The OE Lifeline Deep Cycle AGM batteries on our previous Island Packet were 16 years old when we parted with her. They did need replacing, something the new owner said he would do.

Lifeline batteries are very good and are all date coded. I have a 13 year old one still in use as a slave in my workshop, after being away 18 weeks I popped it on charge. Fully charged in 12 hours with an antique James Grose DIY charger. I jumped the 1,9 diesel Doblo with it, it lit up straight away.

I have always found AGM's first class.

 

[geem]

I know all that - but really not appropriate for the typical yacht usage in the UK which is what the OP (and many others do). Little point in having expensive batteries when their benefits are of little value as your pattern of usage does not use what the extra money is buying. Exactly the same reason why most of us don't have 16 ton boats loaded up with all the necessary gear to live all year round in the Caribbean. Most UK boats are weekend toys and are equipped as such. Of course once you start doing things more demanding you adjust your operating systems to suit the new requirements.

Remember 30 years ago most coastal sailors had 2 simple 100AH batteries and a 45 amp alternator (if they were lucky) and managed just fine - no fridges, no hungry radar and autopilots etc. Now the sort of set up as i described is typical of newer boats in the 30-40' range and works well - and many older boats are upgraded to similar levels as owners fit goodies with higher power demands.

Not sure why you seem to have so much difficulty in following the explanations and implying that you know something that others don't.

If you bothered to read the article you would notice that true deep cycle batteries cost less per Ah than leisure batteries. You don't need to be a rufty tufty sailor to have good batteries. True deep cycle batteries are not expensive. Trojan T 105s £147 each at Tanya. Two of those gives you a 225Ah domestic bank if you want small. The difference is they are true deep cycle, not rebadged starter batteries. If you bothered to read the article they should last at least 2.5 times as long even for the weekend sailor.
They have thick plates, gaps under the lead to stop shedded material causing shorts/premature battery failure and proper plate seperators. These are not features of marine batteries or leisure batteries

 

[[70521]]

Trojan T 105s £147 each at Tanya.

Plus £10. 38 delivery. So that is a total of £157.00

Source: T-105 Trojan Battery Deep Cycle (T105) Accessed 01/10/2021.

Ideal if you have the space, I looked at them but can't easily fit them on the boat. Then you read things like which is a tad off putting if you are investing in 'rolls royce' batteries. I did research the topic before deciding on AGMs.

'Anyhow. I've noticed a bit os swelling on the side cases of them. Not sure how common that is with FLA, but I've seen a thread or two elsewhere about it happening with new T105s'

Source: Slightly swelling Trojans - Cruisers & Sailing Forums

Some other interesting comments in the thead about exploding lead acid batteries and about replacing the them to save some weight and free up some storage space. Sounds like people are lugging a lot of lead across the ocean for very little benefit.

 

[PaulRainbow]

If you bothered to read the article you would notice that true deep cycle batteries cost less per Ah than leisure batteries. You don't need to be a rufty tufty sailor to have good batteries. True deep cycle batteries are not expensive. Trojan T 105s £147 each at Tanya. Two of those gives you a 225Ah domestic bank if you want small. The difference is they are true deep cycle, not rebadged starter batteries. If you bothered to read the article they should last at least 2.5 times as long even for the weekend sailor.
They have thick plates, gaps under the lead to stop shedded material causing shorts/premature battery failure and proper plate seperators. These are not features of marine batteries or leisure batteries

I've said before, there is no "one battery fits all" solution, there isn't.

The OP has a pair of leisure batteries and a 1-2-B switch, he's replaced them with another pair of similar batteries. Should have cost him about £230 for the pair. He has 240AH of power for his £230, as opposed to 225AH for the £294 the Trojans would cost. Personally, i wouldn't want to run either of them lower than 50%, so i don't accept that it costs less per AH for T-105s, even if that were true, the OP doesn't need the extra AHs. If he went for T-105s he'd also need to fit another battery for engine starting, replace the 1-2-B switch, fit split charging etc. Also worth noting tjat the T105s will need a higher absorption voltage than most starter batteries will be happy with, so potentially some further costs. It's doubtful his battery box will tale a pair of T-105s, so more work and cost. Hardly a practical or cost effective solution.

I'm sure you've carefully worked out that for your usage T-105s make sense and you're almost certainly correct, but that doesn't apply to anywhere near everyone.

When i'm carrying out battery/charging system upgrades, the vast majority of my battery installs are 2 or 3 leisure batteries and a stater battery and that works fine for those people. Some have different usage patterns and power requirements and the installation will include solar (most now, actually), others will consist of something like a bank of four T-105s. In fact, i have just designed an installation for a customer where i think four T-105s will be perfect, with a suitable starter battery.

My own installation consists of four T-105s and some solar panels, with a SLA engine start battery. Charging is focussed on the Trojans, but the engine battery is also very happy with the absorption voltage that the Trojans need. But i certainly wouldn't suggest such an arrangement for most of my customers.

 

[ghostlymoron]

I have done similar sums and I usually go away for 2-3 days or just overnight with typically 6-8 hours sailing with all systems on and fridge on overnight. Maybe 50-60AH a day and a battery bank of 285. A couple of hours motoring puts back in 30AH+ so I usually end up plugging into shorepower when I get back. If I went away for longer periods or sailed more (particularly at night) I would look at adding solar increasing size of house bank or reducing consumption, mainly fridge.

These days night sailing doesn't use more amps provided you've got LED navigation lights.

 

[geem]

I've said before, there is no "one battery fits all" solution, there isn't.

The OP has a pair of leisure batteries and a 1-2-B switch, he's replaced them with another pair of similar batteries. Should have cost him about £230 for the pair. He has 240AH of power for his £230, as opposed to 225AH for the £294 the Trojans would cost. Personally, i wouldn't want to run either of them lower than 50%, so i don't accept that it costs less per AH for T-105s, even if that were true, the OP doesn't need the extra AHs. If he went for T-105s he'd also need to fit another battery for engine starting, replace the 1-2-B switch, fit split charging etc. Also worth noting tjat the T105s will need a higher absorption voltage than most starter batteries will be happy with, so potentially some further costs. It's doubtful his battery box will tale a pair of T-105s, so more work and cost. Hardly a practical or cost effective solution.

I'm sure you've carefully worked out that for your usage T-105s make sense and you're almost certainly correct, but that doesn't apply to anywhere near everyone.

When i'm carrying out battery/charging system upgrades, the vast majority of my battery installs are 2 or 3 leisure batteries and a stater battery and that works fine for those people. Some have different usage patterns and power requirements and the installation will include solar (most now, actually), others will consist of something like a bank of four T-105s. In fact, i have just designed an installation for a customer where i think four T-105s will be perfect, with a suitable starter battery.

My own installation consists of four T-105s and some solar panels, with a SLA engine start battery. Charging is focussed on the Trojans, but the engine battery is also very happy with the absorption voltage that the Trojans need. But i certainly wouldn't suggest such an arrangement for most of my customers.

I am not disagreeing. Most people are happy with caravan batteries. I am simply trying to point out that they are not equal to proper deep cycle batteries.

 

[ChromeDome]

Opens ok with adblocker.

Tried with chrome and was ok. Edge didn't like that it wasn't a secure site but allowed me to open it.

Edge..?! Never even considered to use it.

I want to be in control hence am a bit particular about GDPR, cookies and all that comes out of it. And my Firefox managed the page flawlessly despite using Ghostery, Cookie Autodelete, "I don't care about cookies", Overlay killer, Facebook blocker, uBlock Origin and DuckDuck Privacy on top of Defender and Malwarebytes Premium !!
OTOH never had a virus, hacking attack, ID theft, malware, bloatware, adware, hijack or anything else infection of my pc's ?

 

[Dino]

I wanted a good solution on my mobo and I was happy to pay for a good quality item. I did a fair bit of research and the Victron AGM Super Cycles came out very high on the list with a great spec. Not cheap but I have found them excellent. A lot more usable capacity and they are fine with 50% discharge. They can also be completely discharged 300 times. I replaced 3 x 130ah with 2 x 170ah.
I also replaced my old Newmar charger with a Victron IP43 50A 3 outlet Bluetooth charger.

 

[John the kiwi]

We all take decisions about what goes on our boats and I have taken a different decision to you because of two events:

1. a pal who had a lead acid battery split and spill acid, a fun vomit inducing day was spent cleaning that up;
2. another pal who replaced his batteries in the spring then visited the Southampton Boat Show in September only to be told that his 'maintenance free lead acid' were not and he should top them up with distilled water.

I don't expect the batteries to get damaged, but as a retired safety engineer it is all about mitigating risk. In the unlikely event that a battery splits, I recall a thread a few weeks ago about a battery exploding, I won't have the unpleasant job of cleaning up battery acid and trying to store it until I can do so in a safe manner - NO I would not tip it into the oggin.

There were other factors for going to AGMs

1. Cost the AGMs were the same price as lead acid so from a cost point of view it was a no brainer;
2. I can run them to a lower voltage without damaging them, I don't plan to do so but can if I need to;
3. Charging them is faster;
4. They fitted into the existing battery boxes and had 20AH more capacity.

What have you got against tipping battery acid into the Oggin? Do you not understand the chemistry? Battery acid is H2SO4.
i.e Hydrogen Oxygen and sulphur. All of these are naturally present in seawater. At worst your litre or two of battery acid tipped over the side will cause temporary highly localised imbalance in the relative proportions, but i defy you to measure the effect 5 minutes later. Admittedly, If you were tipping thousands of litres in a shallow non tidal bay, it may be another story.

 

[Graham376]

I went for AGMs as they won't leak acid if damaged. Managed to find some 130 AH of the same size as my old 110 AHs so went for three house and one 70 AH starter.

I'm puzzled by this statement, why won't they leak if damaged? AGMs have acid in them, the porous glass mat is just used for plate separation.

 

[[70521]]

What have you got against tipping battery acid into the Oggin? Do you not understand the chemistry? Battery acid is H2SO4.
i.e Hydrogen Oxygen and sulphur. All of these are naturally present in seawater. At worst your litre or two of battery acid tipped over the side will cause temporary highly localised imbalance in the relative proportions, but i defy you to measure the effect 5 minutes later. Admittedly, If you were tipping thousands of litres in a shallow non tidal bay, it may be another story.

I was a member of an engineering institution who's code of conduct had an environment statement. I consider not adding the the destruction of the planet important. Others may have other opinions.

 

[[70521]]

I'm puzzled by this statement, why won't they leak if damaged? AGMs have acid in them, the porous glass mat is just used for plate separation.

Why are you puzzled? May I suggest a test.

Take one lead acid battery and one AGM and punch a hole in the bottom of each then time how long it takes for all of the acid to exit the battery.

Now repeat the experiment on a dark and stormy night in a moderate sea and report back on the percentage and depth of acid burns to you and your crew. Only torches maybe used in the experiment.

 

[Graham376]

Why are you puzzled? May I suggest a test.

Take one lead acid battery and one AGM and punch a hole in the bottom of each then time how long it takes for all of the acid to exit the battery.

Now repeat the experiment on a dark and stormy night in a moderate sea and report back on the percentage and depth of acid burns to you and your crew. Only torches maybe used in the experiment.

I think you're confusing agm with gel, the difference being that gel has silica added to gel the acid. AGMs are usually spill proof (not all are) but the acid will still leak if the case cracks.

P.S. I tried some Classic Enersol AGMs some years ago (waste of time only lasted 3 years) one of which did crack and leak.