Best small boat for the med?

[jimmy_the_builder]

So, speaking entirely hypothetically, let's say that you're a long-time UK boater, but finally you've had enough of the patchy UK weather and it's time to try the med. Let's assume that (a) you're heading for the SoF because of the easy travel connections (b) it's probably gonna be a mobo (c) absolute max loa is 12m, and max beam is 4m (d) needs to be good enough accommodation to cater for two couples for a weekend (e) budget say £200k.

For me, my first thought would be a Targa 40 cos I've already got one, and I love it - but (a) it's in the UK (£7700 to truck it down) (b) it doesn't have air con (no idea but guessing £15k for aircon and generator upgrade) (c) it's a brilliant boat for the two of us, but nfg (imho) for us + guests and (d) I suspect might annoyingly be a smidge too long for the berth.

What would the panel recommend?

Cheers
Jimmy

 

[z1ppy]

Another great question! Hypothetical of course!

Think it must be the weather as i was thinking something very similar last night as i was listining to the thunder and lightning!

be interested to hear other peoples views on this also....

i hadnt realised the berths were so restrictive down there??

 

[EME]

Depends upon "The Berth" dimensions ??? .... I'm sure you know you get +10% and, in my experience, can be negotiable if you know the capitainerie.

T38/T40/ Windy Bora/Grand Bora (a tad longer), but "the Berth" dimensions are the key to choice.

 

[jimmy_the_builder]

The berth is nominally a 10x4, but by precedent is accommodating boats up to (just a tad under) 12m, so I reckon 12m is a hard stop.

Cheers
Jimmy

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

This panel recommends that you hang on to your existing boat, spec her up for the Med i.e. genie, aircon, pasarelle and truck her out there (£7700 sounds v expensive), because that's still probably going to be a lot cheaper than taking a depreciation hit on selling her + brokerage fees. Not only that, buying another used boat in the Med will inevitably lead to further expense on sorting it out before its exactly as you like it (I've got the t shirt on this one) and you'll have to pay somebody else to do it too.
Having said all this, IMHO and some peeps will vehemently disagree, but the critical point about a Med boat is whether its going to be your home whilst you're out there or whether you've already got a place in SoF and the boat is a effectively a day boat, because that should decide what kind of boat you choose for the Med. If the latter then a sports cruiser is a perfect Med boat; plenty of deck loafing space and stylish. However, if you're going to be living on the boat when you're in the Med, I think a flybridge is a better choice simply because it has more living accommodation. FWIW, our first Med boat was a T48 and we quickly sold it for a f/b boat because even a T48 isn't big enough inside for living on especially with guests. And you will have guests sleeping on board because they don't come just for the day in the Med. Also don't think that it's wall to wall sunshine in the Med; it rains sometimes (and even snows) and can be cold out of season so you do also need interior space. Even when it is wall to wall sunshine, its nice to have an a/c cooled saloon to retreat to when you get too hot and still have a view out.

 

[woodie1000]

Mostly agree with Mike. You should get a T40 to SoF for a lot less than £8k. James B of Essex (or us) can put you in touch with an excellent trucking company. I think £15k is high for aircon, especially as you could get that done here which wouldn't be crazy expensive.

Also, you've got the T40 the way you want her, if you sell and buy, yes, you'll get a boat with aircon/gennie but 1) you'll probably lose money in the sell/buy process and 2) you'll have to change a load of other things on the new boat to get to the old T40 spec. As you know, SoF rule of thumb is to double or treble costs vs. UK.

The only reason I'd change is to go flybridge (unless you absolutely can't fit the T40 on the berth, I don't see the point of swapping for another sports boat, I don't see what you'd gain). Mike makes some good points on Med boating which I'd broadly agree with, but that's not to say you can't enjoy yourself on a sports boat in the Med!

 

[gjgm]

You mention the cost of carting it down there, but boat prices seem a hell of alot higher in euro land (assuming the budget originates in GBP), dont they, Jimmy? Maybe its the spec....
You know that when your friend moves to SoF, it will be an aweful summer and wonderful here, dont you

 

[EME]

The berth is nominally a 10x4, but by precedent is accommodating boats up to (just a tad under) 12m, so I reckon 12m is a hard stop.
Jimmy

Lots of Credit-Card-Weekenders (like the Atlantis Verve) fit that bill but for serious stay-aboard stuff for weeks at a time I am struggling .. you begin to sacrifice deck space for berths . A trade-off I struggle with when it comes to the Med.

 

[Nick_H]

This panel recommends that you hang on to your existing boat, spec her up for the Med i.e. genie, aircon, pasarelle and truck her out there (£7700 sounds v expensive), because that's still probably going to be a lot cheaper than taking a depreciation hit on selling her + brokerage fees. Not only that, buying another used boat in the Med will inevitably lead to further expense on sorting it out before its exactly as you like it (I've got the t shirt on this one) and you'll have to pay somebody else to do it too.

Agree all that, it's cheaper, easier, and far less frustrating to get work done here, then ship a completely sorted boat to the med.

I'd agree with the flybridge comments if we were talking more than 12m LOA, but there are very few flybridge options to choose from at that length, and those that are look a bit awkward and out of proportion. Anyway we know Jimmy doesn't like flybridges. Despite their popularity I think smaller harp tops make no sense at all in the med, particularly for Jimmy given his lack of biological bimini , so that leads us back to a sport cruiser. If the T40 will fit the berth, i'd stick with that, particularly as its such a nice one and in tip top condition.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

As you know, SoF rule of thumb is to double or treble costs vs. UK.

When we berthed in La Napoule in 2003, SWMBO and I used to joke (through gritted teeth) that every maintenance bill seemed to be 1000 Euros however small the job. Heaven knows what the typical maintenance bill is now. The other problem with maintaining a boat in the Med is that mostly you've got to pay somebody else to do it. When I had a boat in the UK, I did some of the maintenance myself but unless you've got loads of spare time, you don't want to be spending what limited time you have on your Med boat mending it

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

I'd agree with the flybridge comments if we were talking more than 12m LOA, but there are very few flybridge options to choose from at that length, and those that are look a bit awkward and out of proportion.

Yeah I agree with that although there are one or 2 nice looking ones about. For example, Phantom 40 is a good boat and is prob about same length as Targa 40

 

[jimmy_the_builder]

All interesting points, thanks. I've just had a price in for aircon on the T40, and apparently there's a way they can do it without me needing to upgrade the generator. The recommendation is for 9000 btu in the front cabin, and 16000 btu in the saloon/rear cabin. I've got absolutely no idea about aircon capacities; does this sound about right?

It sounds like the loa on the berth I'm looking at is the stumbling point. Nickh/woodie1000 - the berth in question is on the w side of quai 2 in pv. Looking at the aerial photos, it looks like all the berths on the w side of quai 2 are nominally 10m; do you know what the nominal lengths of the berths on the e side is? Are there any 12m berths in pv? There appear to be a handful of 10m's for sale at the moment, and at least one 15m on the very lovely mole sud - but I can't afford that _and_ buy a boat big enough to put on it, grrr.

Cheers
Jimmy

 

[jimmy_the_builder]

Yeah I agree with that although there are one or 2 nice looking ones about. For example, Phantom 40 is a good boat and is prob about same length as Targa 40

It is, but beamier. I'm not hugely keen on small f/b boats, although I can see why they would be the sensible choice here (I had a princess 42 f/b briefly before the t40, and didn't like it here in the uk - although ironically it would have been excellent in the med).

Cheers
Jimmy

 

[martin]

dayboats vs live on boats

Agreeing with Deleted User and there are a few pros and cons.. there must be a "right" combo but we havent got it right yet!

Just sold our UK Prinny and still have a house with day boat out in spain..a searay 290 bowrider with twin mercs which is probably the most deck/seating space you can get with a proper toilet room. (its been up for sale for ages but that's another issue)

We decided that we wouldnt be sleeping overnight at anchor (dont ask!), so the boat would be returning to a marina every evening...therefore we wouldnt need beds etc.

If we do go "away" we would marina hop and stay in hotels en route..also, if it does change from wall to wall sunshine to rain ...simple...dont go out on the boat..stay in hotel and hit the spa.

Pros

Great nights in luxury hotels with great fun days out on the water
Low costs
Store in a honeycomb wharehouse when not in the country so when your not there its safely out of the water
Proper fridge, sink and BBQ area to cook on
Cheaper than a bigun

Cons

Storage for overnight stuff (you cant leave it lying in the boat its all deck and seats) during the day
Cooking for 4-6 people hard work
Even a small swell gives the boat a lot of motion, its not like sitting on a solid 40plus footer
We never actually "go away"..somehow we always end up just bombing about the local area..which is a bit boring sometimes.

so no idea what the best boat is...depends on the "is it going to be a home" or "is it to get out on the water" question.

 

[Hurricane]

It is, but beamier. I'm not hugely keen on small f/b boats, although I can see why they would be the sensible choice here (I had a princess 42 f/b briefly before the t40, and didn't like it here in the uk - although ironically it would have been excellent in the med).

Cheers
Jimmy

Yep, you have to be a lot older to have a flybridge, Jimmy

Joking aside and knowing you, - its got to be an upgrade for the T40.
Also dont worry too much about upgrading the generator - we hardly ever use the A/C at anchor - but in port it's on all the time - definately add the A/C though.

Passerelle???

BTW leaving Spain today for home after nearly a month here - late season has been good but the weather in the last few days has changed for the worse.
Having said that, we are still in shorts and tee shirts.

 

[jimmy_the_builder]

Well, very specifically, I think it would mostly be a weekend toy. I don't see us doing any major cruises, there's a lot to see within about 30m each way from Antibes. Having overnighted on jfm's very lovely Match at both Villefranche and the Iles de Lerins it would be very nice to try those locations again - but that's just one night at a time. And we don't have any other accom in France, so the boat would be it.

If only you could rent these berths, rather than buy them, it would all be much easier!

Cheers
Jimmy

 

[MapisM]

The recommendation is for 9000 btu in the front cabin, and 16000 btu in the saloon/rear cabin. I've got absolutely no idea about aircon capacities; does this sound about right?

Yes, it does.

On the rest, I fully agree with Deleted User comments, fwiw.
A f/b is hugely better, for any kind of usage other than strictly a day boat.

PS: I also agree with Hurric, it's pointless to upgrade the genset for the A/C.

 

[jimmy_the_builder]

Passerelle???

Hi Mike

The T40 has provision for a cassette passerelle, but I spose in the short term I figured a manual fold-up passerelle that we'd just sling in the garage would do.

Your comments about the a/c are interesting. It would be nice to be able to stay out at anchor at night without the generator running all the time.

Cheers
Jimmy

 

[rlw]

Hi Jimmy,

I bought a T40 in Mallorca last year and had it trucked from Palamos to Holland for just under 5.000€. SOF france was a couple of hundred euro's cheaper. Send me a PM if you need a transport company. If shipping from the UK a UK comapny might make more sense unless you want to add in a cross channel trip

I also loved the boat. Would have preferred D6 350's instead of KAD 44's but the budget would not stretch that far. I have aircon in mine (2001 model) and from memory I think the original spec might be lower. 7000 Btu and 12000 Btu. Could check this weekend if you want. I am sure fairline can tell you also. They could tell me the propsize the boat was shipped with in 2001.

Good luck.

Rob

 

[MapisM]

If shipping from the UK a UK comapny might make more sense unless you want to add in a cross channel trip

Hmm... I would think that whoever makes the transport, be it a UK or French company, if the boat is in the UK, the truck will have to cross the channel twice anyway. Actually, if JtB wishes to cross on his boat, a French company should be able to make a better offer, because it takes less costs and time for them.
Or am I missing something?