Best/Safest Way to Gain Experience

If you really are at nil experience other than CC...I would want to learn more, from somewhere, before setting off as skipper. DS course is one source of knowledge. You could consult books, YouTube, and you could (I strongly recommend) do a little dinghy sailing.

The latter is how many of us cut our teeth. It has great advantages in learning how all the essentials of boat balance, sail, foils and steering work together - because you are in charge of all of them in an a more responsive, connected way. You can do a hundred tacks/gybes in your laser or Wayfarer in less time than you do five in your yacht. You can capsize it. You can crash it and a repair is unlikely to run to three figures. You can do Man overboard drills, heaving to, picking up moorings on your own all day (without having to bore your yacht crew). And it's fun.

Dinghy sailing is generally associated with picking up core sailing skills of clise-quarter boat handling, manoeuvres, sail trim, wind awareness at greater speed and lower cost than yacht sailing.

Tom Cunliffe's most recent Day Skipper guide may be useful. Compared to many such books it (1) presents your first steps as skipper in an informal realistic way (2) encourages you to understand from the outset that there are many ways to do things, with pros and cons, and your job as skipper is therefore not to only to adopt doctrine but to understand it and apply with discretion.

Personally if your CC is literally all you have, I wouldn't be going alone just yet. I would want to get some skills from somewhere else which could be (but isn't necessarily) an instructor. Own boat tuition sounds wise; sailing with chums is also good. If you let us know where you are,someone might make you an offer.

The "meta-advice" is that (1) you must never stop learning (2) you accept great responsibility to assess your own capabilities (and crew, and boat) and make decisions accordingly. DS qualifies you to sail "in familiar waters by day"...but only actual experience and judgment enables you to decide whether to go out in a choppy F5 with less experienced or novice crew.

Good luck!
 
RJJ said:
If you really are at nil experience other than CC...I would want to learn more, from somewhere, before setting off as skipper. DS course is one source of knowledge. You could consult books, YouTube, and you could (I strongly recommend) do a little dinghy sailing.

The latter is how many of us cut our teeth. It has great advantages in learning how all the essentials of boat balance, sail, foils and steering work together - because you are in charge of all of them in an a more responsive, connected way. You can do a hundred tacks/gybes in your laser or Wayfarer in less time than you do five in your yacht. You can capsize it. You can crash it and a repair is unlikely to run to three figures. You can do Man overboard drills, heaving to, picking up moorings on your own all day (without having to bore your yacht crew). And it's fun.

Dinghy sailing is generally associated with picking up core sailing skills of clise-quarter boat handling, manoeuvres, sail trim, wind awareness at greater speed and lower cost than yacht sailing.

Tom Cunliffe's most recent Day Skipper guide may be useful. Compared to many such books it (1) presents your first steps as skipper in an informal realistic way (2) encourages you to understand from the outset that there are many ways to do things, with pros and cons, and your job as skipper is therefore not to only to adopt doctrine but to understand it and apply with discretion.

Personally if your CC is literally all you have, I wouldn't be going alone just yet. I would want to get some skills from somewhere else which could be (but isn't necessarily) an instructor. Own boat tuition sounds wise; sailing with chums is also good. If you let us know where you are,someone might make you an offer.

The "meta-advice" is that (1) you must never stop learning (2) you accept great responsibility to assess your own capabilities (and crew, and boat) and make decisions accordingly. DS qualifies you to sail "in familiar waters by day"...but only actual experience and judgment enables you to decide whether to go out in a choppy F5 with less experienced or novice crew.

Good luck!
Click to expand...

That's great advice, thank you
 
In a similar er, boat. Day skipper and a few weeks in the Med (where someone helps you park the boat, there's no tide to worry about, you moor differently and have an engineer on standby). It's probably going to be the things that don't worry me the most that bite me in the arse but my biggest source of paranoia are probably - rafting up, anchoring in tidal / river conditions, getting my lines right against a harbour wall. Especially one up.
 
While many preach the dingy sailing is the only way to learn; it will only get your bum wet and the onboard tea making facilities are rubbish.

Do look at a range of training books as we all like different styles. Make sure you buy a copy of Reeds Skippers Handbook, a brilliant wee book packed with stuff you need to know and no waffle.
 
croc9968 said:
Hope everyone is well

No doubt a popular question but I would value the insight of the forum..... I have entered sailing in a rather unorthodox/topsy turvy way in that I passed my Day skipper Theory last year and this year I passed my CC in the Solent. I want to go on to my Day Skipper practical now but want to build miles before I do (obviously not at the moment). However......In February I bought my 30ft Maxi 100 and I guess my question is this....do I build miles by simply "sailing" my boat or do I leave it in the berth and attempt to build miles as crew on other boats? All of this after we are allowed to, of course....
Click to expand...
Learning from being on other boats, can help, but only if the skipper actually knows what they are doing & runs it well.
Just because someone drives a car, doesn't mean they drive well, or haven't developed bad habits.
Why don't you carry onto DS & then you might have more of an idea + more confidence on your own boat.
 
Sandy said:
While many preach the dingy sailing is the only way to learn; it will only get your bum wet and the onboard tea making facilities are rubbish.
Click to expand...
:) Totally agree about the tea making, but IMO, as one who sailed a dinghy after sailing yachts, you can learn a lot about sail trim very quickly in a dinghy, simply because it responds so much quicker. Plus, when you really cock up - or push the limit that little bit too far, things get wet rather than just untidy. It's called aversion therapy...

If you've done CC and DS theory, you've got all the theoretical knowledge you need to get out there but, as others have said, a day's own boat tuition, mostly spent pontoon bashing, getting on and off in different wind and tidal conditions will give you the confidence to get out and start making your own mistakes without them costing anything except pride.

One final thought - when you get to the point where you'r tempted to play spinnakers, take someone who knows what they're doing along. My boat does almost as well goose winged as she does under spinnaker, so mine stays firmly in the bag, but I've seen a few spectacular - and expensive - cockups on other boats!
 
I had been around boats all my life - old box brownie photo of me rowing a clinker skiff on the Serpentine at about six years old - but no sailing untill 2001. Did CC in Menorca, bought a 1/3rd boat share and learned on the water. Hours on the water in unfamiliar places means you HAVE to learn.

A fellow club member and sometime mentor, a well known and respected YM Examiner, came with us for a long weekend and first thing he asked was 'can I see your logbook?'

He read for twenty minutes, closed it gently, looked at both of us and said " Wow! Dont you two do a lot of sailing! "

We were caring for 4 aged parents at the time and the boat was escape from the stress of that, so we were out in anything but really poor conditions, albeit locally.

IMHO, a good theory grounding is essential, polished by hours on the water.

Get boating!
 
While I'm a great fan of just getting on and learning by yourself, I'd also say it's good to get any different experience you can.
Sail with other people, crew in a race or two, sail on bigger boats or smaller boats.
 
I was talking with a surgeon many years ago about training. He said that the only time they learned was in the middle of the night when things go wrong and the boss is not standing by them. This is when trainees start to sweat. This may be an exaggeration, but in the end a sailor has to expose him(her)self to the elements, whether on a pond or the sea. Basic bookwork is essential for sea sailing, but it needn't be complicated.
Lack of experience is no excuse for getting into trouble or causing damage to other craft, however, and basic boat handling skills must be acquired , although a swinging mooring or simple berth can make this an easier process.
 
croc9968 said:
I suspect that the majority of us started our sailing journey in many different ways....apart from my CC course my sailing experience is zero...just leaving the marina (and returning) safely would be an achievement. I'm lucky in that the boat is moored in Seaham and I'm sure that armed with a six pack I could rope an old salt to help me.
Click to expand...

I started from the same point. Did the CC course to see if I would like sailing, did DS theory at night school, bought a Centaur and got some on board tuition plus help with refit, then he sailed it with me from Hamble to Conwy - long DS course, learned a lot. :)
 
Sandy said:
Do both. Sail with other people and sail your own boat.

I am incredibly fortunate to have a pal who is a Yachtmaster Instructor and he puts me through my paces a few times a year; rather keeps you on your toes!
Click to expand...

Definitely do both. There are so many simple little things that could take years to even think of, that you can pick up very quickly by sailing with more experienced sailors - whether on a course or just crewing for other sailors.
I have seen people who have sailed for 20 years who have been doing things the complicated way for all 20 years, and a quick suggestion seen elsewhere simplifies immediately. And I learn new things every time I sail with somebody else (and I have sailed for 50 years).

Equally in between start doing non ambitious trips on your own boat - to test out what you have learnt and identify what else you need to learn. As noted, ideally with more experienced crew on board, but a few light wind trips would help also.

Enjoy
 
Stemar said:
:) Totally agree about the tea making, but IMO, as one who sailed a dinghy after sailing yachts, you can learn a lot about sail trim very quickly in a dinghy,
Click to expand...

This is true, but good sail trim is only one small part of skippering a cruising yacht. And for someone in the OP’s position it’s not a particularly high-priority thing to learn. Breaking his or someone else’s boat for lack of skill at close quarters handling, running aground through poor pilotage or planning, causing damage or injury from not handling gear properly - all these things are much more important to avoid than sailing a knot slower than he could have done with better sail shape.

Pete
 
Dinghy sailing, especially racing, is about a lot more than sail trim. Rounding a few marks and practising a few line starts will teach you a lot about boat handling. Sailing a dinghy in tide will develop judgement of speeds and angles. I think it works the other way too, time spent afloat on a yacht can make you a better dinghy sailor.
As prv says, the OP's priority is enough boat handling skill to get going.
 
Certainly from the discussion so far, there are many ways to approach this ....my overriding focus is safety (for others, for me) and experience/formal training certainly makes you more safe. I will do my DS but I think the advice from many of you that I learn from others and then put into practice what I've learnt on my boat is possibly a good way to go. Small steps; learning from others; practice myself; bigger steps; practice myself and so forth......I don't have an issue with dinghy sailing and there are certainly some advantages to having a go....In the meantime, during isolation, I have been reading Reeds (and others) and it has been an excellent knowledge base. I've also been taking the time to learn more about my boat, the servicing of the engine, electrics, plumbing......there are so many aspects to this......great fun though and I think the bug has bitten deeply
 
croc9968 said:
I suspect that the majority of us started our sailing journey in many different ways....apart from my CC course my sailing experience is zero...just leaving the marina (and returning) safely would be an achievement. I'm lucky in that the boat is moored in Seaham and I'm sure that armed with a six pack I could rope an old salt to help me.
Click to expand...

I am in the crack on camp. Do sail other boats, racing is good, but not if it prevents you using your own.

There is stuff you learn as number one that can't be picked up in any other way.
.
 
capnsensible said:
Marina crashing? Going aground? Accidental gybing? Knackering the engine? Sounds fun. :eek:
Click to expand...
Did 3 out of 4 last year , but I truly blamed the Wife , who was steering all the time , not knackered the engine , but the inverter blew up after taking green water which forced its way in a small hole dripped down and manged to get to the inverter which at the time was running the computers for the navigation as I trying to get into Loch Tarbet getting battered with 50 knot gusts coming of the Paps ah you learn from the mistakes , just make sure there not big ones
 
johnalison said:
in the end a sailor has to expose him(her)self to the elements, whether on a pond or the sea.
Click to expand...

This is absolutely true and to learn how to effectively be in charge of a boat you need to really *be in charge* but the "in the end" part is significant. By that time one should have a good idea, in theory at least, of how things are supposed to work. The steps through competent crew to skipper can be done by trial and error but those errors, particularly in a 30' boat, can do a significant amount of damage to someone else's boat or your crew. The "just jump in and sail" advocates would appear to either have an awful lot of confidence that that won't happen to them, or lack the imagination to see that it might.

The "To learn to sail a 12 tonne yacht first you must learn to sail a dinghy" argument we've done to death. To say the same thing I do every time (and others will doubtless post the same ripostes), "Your experience of X will be beneficial for your practice of Y" is not the same thing as "Experience of X will make you better at practicing Y than the same amount of experience of Y". Yes those with dinghy sailing experience tend to be better sailors on average than those that don't, but probably because they've been doing it since they were kids and have simply had far more time on the water. For many people dinghy sailing is more accessible than yachting so you can just get far more practice in. That doesn't hold if you actually own a yacht.
 
Last edited:
I started sailing in dinghies as crew, got to be moderately good at it. One day in lightish wind helm went back to slipway and got out to go to get sandwich etc. and pushed me off again on my own (in Albacore) as helm. Initial mild panic, I'd never actually helmed before, then it all became obvious. Came back to pick him up 15 minutes later before next race start as very happy bunny. Bought small dinghy and sailed on my own. Then bigger faster ones. Bought very small cruiser and sailed locally, rapidly going further and further usually but not always singlehanded. Then series of bigger boats, though I kept sailing fast dinghies and cats until quite recently.

Fastish dinghies teach you to sail efficiently without looking at dials.: it still horrifies me how badly maybe 60-70% of modern yachts trim their sails. And how many regard accidental gybes as not just possible but inevitable. If you've planed downwind in a Laser well by the lee (the fastest way) your instincts for wind direction are well tuned. If not you very rapidly swim. I detest swimming. It's most unnatural for an air-breathing mammal, but regrettably the only downside of dinghy sailing. If you don't capsize (usually to windward) occasionally you're not trying. or are sailing a very dull, slow dinghy.

I have been sailing for 50 years, and reckon I can sail almost anything anywhere. Note I said "sail". I'm still not that good at close-quarters handling under power. Most of my sailing has been on and off moorings not in and out of in difficult marina berths.

The OP with his Maxi 100 is in/on a boat that will look after him/her at sea in most conditions, a moderately fast cruiser - I've sailed a very similar Maxi 95. I'd strongly suggest him/her doing some dinghy sailing, but he/she could just sail the Maxi. The main danger is handling errors under power damaging others especially if in a tight or awkward marina berth. If on a mooring just go sailing. You can always slow down a fastish boat but you can't speed up a slow one.
 
laika said:
This is absolutely true and to learn how to effectively be in charge of a boat you need to really *be in charge* but the "in the end" part is significant. By that time one should have a good idea, in theory at least, of how things are supposed to work. The steps through competent crew to skipper can be done by trial and error but those errors, particularly in a 30' boat, can do a significant amount of damage to someone else's boat or your crew. The "just jump in and sail" advocates would appear to either have an awful lot of confidence that that won't happen to them, or lack the imagination to see that it might.

The "To learn to sail a 12 tonne yacht first you must learn to sail a dinghy" argument we've done to death. To say the same thing I do every time (and others will doubtless post the same ripostes), "Your experience of X will be beneficial for your practice of Y" is not the same thing as "Experience of X will make you better at practicing Y than the same amount of experience of Y". Yes those with dinghy sailing experience tend to be better sailors because on average than those that don't, but probably because they've been doing it since they were kids and have simply had far more time on the water. For many people dinghy sailing is more accessible than yachting so you can just get far more practice in. That doesn't hold if you actually own a yacht.
Click to expand...
To be in charge, you need a crew to be in charge of, not just a boat.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page

Top