Best rig and keel for most of your time under sail?

dancrane said:
Oh! :( Your boat is one that I envy more than most, here!
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Thanks.
What a pity, but thanks for your honesty.
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What's to pity :) Slow and comfortable suits me, an extra couple of hours on a 60M trip isn't a problem if the boat isn't leaning over on its ear and crashing off waves.
I think it's all to do with state of mind, some want to get from A to B as fast as possible with a face full of spray, I just want to get there and have a meal (and maybe a snooze) on route :)
 
The best rig and keel is the long, narrow, shallow, heavily ballasted long keel on our boat, combined with the easily managed cutter rig with self tacking jib.

The reason its the best for most of our time under sail is that its what we have!

We can JUST tack through 100 degrees, we will make up to 10 degrees of leeway under some conditions, but we dont reef untill 22knts. plus.

22 knts. on the beam and we fly.

Less than 10 knts. true, better with the Iron Jib.
 
nickd said:
All other things being equal a boat tacking through 80 degrees will need to cover nearly 35% more ground than a boat tacking through 60 degrees assuming that the wind is dead on the nose and so is the destination so woul need a sunstantial increase in speed to justify that bearway
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How do you work that out?


I come up with 13%.....
Scuse the scribbles

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rotrax said:
The reason it's the best for most of our time under sail is that it's what we have!
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I'm pretty sure that's putting perseverance over logic! Unless you chose the boat having assessed that it met your requirements best? In which case, it's what you have because it's best for you, not t'other way round...

...not trying to be pedantic, but I'm continually mystified by so many owners having yachts which don't seem very usable for the places and periods in which they're kept.

I suppose a deep-fin, open-cockpit sloop in the UK is like owning a classic car...not kept for its knock-about practicality or ease of ownership, but as something to flash on a few bright days per year, which hopefully fill the owner with enough enthusiasm to put up with her vulnerability, maintenance costs and restrictions on use, all the rest of the time.

A complementary passage was written about the homely but practical Westerly Vulcan, a line of which seems simply to assume that nobody buying a voluminous, tough, comfortable all-weather cruiser will have any expectation of getting to windward except by diesel power: "...and she really sails (no not upwind, silly, you motorsail upwind)..."

...so perhaps I must accept, the twain won't ever meet - a yacht is either a rapid, sensitive, demanding, deep-keeled giraffe that rejects the sort of shallow harbours I like...

...or a robust old wart-hog which can't be hurried, least of all to windward. No, wart-hog is unfair...let's say turtle? Do turtles react to wind direction? :confused: What am I thinking of?

Pardon me, it's my lunchtime. :rolleyes:
 
DJE said:
And what are these boats that tack through 60 degrees anyway?
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Quite. I knew this thread would be fun!

For reference we (deep keel Elan 37 with carbon sails and a full crew) have upwind targets of 7.2 knots at 42 degrees TWA.

And we regard second at the windward mark to be a failure. It's a VERY good upwind boat.
 
I reckon those two are very inspiring, thanks for posting. The latter is an Ovni, isn't she?

Shows what can be done. What a pity the big companies continue to crank out GRP caravans which, however virtuously economical, don't break much new ground in design.
 
We use our JOD 35 - effectively a racing boat - for family cruising too. She would easily sail as close as 20deg AWA, but to keep her "in the grove" there is a pain as it is very "narrow". When short handed we aim to be at around 30/35deg AWA, which is achieved with ease. What is interesting for me is that although they have a funny reputation, Jeanneau every now and then come up with a winner - a boat, which is seaworthy, is very fast, thus competitive and yet can be cruised with ease - the JOD 35, the Sunfast 3200 and now the 3600...
 
Gentlemen, I'm having an epiphany. With a few reservations, I reckon I like these very new wedge-shaped yachts. As a dinghy sailor I want to believe I could eventually aim at sailing a cruiser which needn't be a total slug, unable to point upwind...but equally, I like being able to haul the board up and creek-crawl...or, I'd want bilge keels so she can stand up straight.

Very encouraging. :)
 
Best VMG for me is at about 40 degrees to the true wind. (More like 45 in light winds or lumpy seas). That's a UFO34 so masthead rig with a big overlapping genoa and a lead fin keel. And upwind is definitely the best point of sail. With a good breeze the leeward rail is just at the water level and a steady 7knts is normal. Makes everything about sailing feel like a very happy place. By contrast, trying to get the boat to do 7 knts downwind in almost any conditions feels like hard work.
 
dancrane said:
Thanks Snowleopard, that's as I thought. I'll be glad to pick a boat on the low-performance, high-comfort side.

Still glad to hear suggestions of good compromises though. :)
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Some are worse than others. I have sailed many miles on an Island Packet 42 and I have to say even my 1908 gaffer was better to windward. Tacking angle was in the region of 110° plus a lot of leeway from its shallow long keel. The problem was mainly that the shrouds were secured close to the gunwale and the genoa sheet went outside. That wouldn't have been too bad but it had a beam of 14 ft.

Mind you it was fantastically comfortable below - in harbour.
 
>The latter is an Ovni, isn't she?

No Ovnis have a round bilge but there are a number of French companies who make Aluminium boats and most are hard chine as in the picture. They are cheaper to build but you tend to see more Ovnis than hard chine probably because they are prettier.
 
KellysEye said:
>The latter is an Ovni, isn't she?

No Ovnis have a round bilge but there are a number of French companies who make Aluminium boats and most are hard chine as in the picture. They are cheaper to build but you tend to see more Ovnis than hard chine probably because they are prettier.
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I disagree. The Ovnis are all chined hulls whereas the Allures range have round hulls.
 
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