Best knot to tie reef line around boom

[Twister_Ken]

Eyes under the boom seem demodé. And a good thing too. I once had one which opened up the under-boom track and sprang out. Fortunately it missed everybody on its way up to the cringle, and the boom missed everybody on its way down.

 

[prv]

After I wrote my post, I realised that the OP is just having to tie the end of the line round the boom. I do not regard that as very satisfactory

Why not?

Could hardly be stronger. Shouldn't be much chafe on the rope round a large surface compared to a small fitting. Can't think of any downsides. Seems to be the standard approach on new AWBs.

What problem have you noticed that I haven't?

Pete

 

[Ex-SolentBoy]

All too complicated for me.

Bowline.
End of.

 

[sailorman]

Sorry that I didn't make myself clear. I'm referring to the end of single line reefing that ends around the boom.

a bowline on the bight ( it allows the line to tighten around the boom whilst allowing the bowline to be easily undone) all as #23

 

[prv]

All too complicated for me.

Bowline.
End of.

Um, that's what everyone else is describing too.

Pete

 

[prv]

a bowline on the bight [...] as #23

I agree that that's the right (or a good) way of doing it, but that's not the name I'd use. I know of two knots called a bowline on the bight, one of which I like and one I don't, and neither of them is that one

Pete

 

[Ex-SolentBoy]

Um, that's what everyone else is describing too.

Pete

So you missed the reef knot, bowline on a bight, five hitches, simple looped-back half-reef, bowline with a few half hitches, running bowline and halyard knot that others mentioned ?

 

[prv]

So you missed the reef knot, bowline on a bight, five hitches, simple looped-back half-reef, bowline with a few half hitches, running bowline and halyard knot that others mentioned ?

Fine - swap "everyone" for "most people" then. The reef knotters were answering a different question, and the only other alternatives (halyard knot to a fitting, and big bowline round the whole boom) only had a couple of fans each.

Pete

 

[Norman_E]

Why not?

Could hardly be stronger. Shouldn't be much chafe on the rope round a large surface compared to a small fitting. Can't think of any downsides. Seems to be the standard approach on new AWBs.

What problem have you noticed that I haven't?

Pete

It is quite strong enough, but if you tie the end of a single line reefing line round the boom, which you can only do with a loose footed sail, the knot must stand above the boom, and when reefed down the cringle is above that. If you want to cut down friction in a single line reefing system you need blocks sewn to the sail or hung from "spectacles" through the cringle. The end result of that is that the boom has to be pulled down very low to flatten the sail, often dangerously low. That is why I think it is better, and on my system which has blocks hung from "spectacles", safer because the boom remains above head height in a tack.

 

[flaming]

It is quite strong enough, but if you tie the end of a single line reefing line round the boom, which you can only do with a loose footed sail, the knot must stand above the boom, and when reefed down the cringle is above that. .

Not if you do as most people here suggest and tie the bowline not to the boom, but to the rope itself. You are right that it only works with loose footed mains, but even older designs are now speccing loose footed when replacing sails - the advantages are many and the drawbacks practically none.

If you are using single line reefing and your boom is too low, simply don't let the halyard down so much, then the clew will have to be higher.

 

[nigelmercier]

Use a Running Bowline.

Bring the end of the line down from the cringle around the boom then tie a bowline around the line that came down from the cringle (in other words the standing part).

Another way of looking at it (although it would be dumb to do it this way, it may make it easier to follow): tie a bowline on the end of the line, pass the other end around the boom, through the loop in the bowline, then up to the cringle ...

My Seldén manual says that this knot is mandatory.

 

[prv]

if you tie the end of a single line reefing line round the boom, which you can only do with a loose footed sail, the knot must stand above the boom

Look at SolentBoy's excellent picture to see why both of these are not so.

Pete

 

[Norman_E]

Look at SolentBoy's excellent picture to see why both of these are not so.

Pete

In that photo the rope is not under tension, what happens to that knot when the reefing line is pulled tight? The photo looks as if the sail has a foot bolt rope, and extra cringles in it to allow the reefing line to pass through and round the boom. If that is what we are looking at I cannot help the feeling that fittings to attach the reefing line below the boom would be better, especially if the line runs through a block suspended from the cringle. The biggest objection to single line reefing is the amount of friction involved, and my own single line first reef is made tolerable by the use of blocks instead of running the line directly through the cringles.

 

[trapezeartist]

OK, I think most of us have agreed to secure reefing pennants or single line reefing by the round-the-boom-and-bowline-on-the-bight method. With or without a fitting on the underside of the boom to position it.

My problem comes at the next stage. I can't outhaul the reefed sail enough to get the foot flat. At least, I get scared of breaking something before getting to the sail flat because the tension in the line is getting pretty monstrous. This seems to be due to friction at the cringle. Any suggestions for getting the foot flat?

 

[nigelmercier]

My problem comes at the next stage. I can't outhaul the reefed sail enough to get the foot flat. At least, I get scared of breaking something before getting to the sail flat because the tension in the line is getting pretty monstrous. This seems to be due to friction at the cringle. Any suggestions for getting the foot flat?

Are you de-powering the sail? I doubt that you will break anything, but you may find that the tension slackens off after a while, so just keep tightening it up.

 

[Jamesuk]

Like many others Bowline came to mind. I have used the bowline on Dinghies to boats upto 70feet

 

[Norman_E]

OK, I think most of us have agreed to secure reefing pennants or single line reefing by the round-the-boom-and-bowline-on-the-bight method. With or without a fitting on the underside of the boom to position it.

My problem comes at the next stage. I can't outhaul the reefed sail enough to get the foot flat. At least, I get scared of breaking something before getting to the sail flat because the tension in the line is getting pretty monstrous. This seems to be due to friction at the cringle. Any suggestions for getting the foot flat?

I see two reasons why you might not be able to get enough outhaul tension to flatten the sail. The first is that if your single line reefing ends in a bowline securing the rope round the boom the only thing pulling backwards is the line tension through the cringle, and not actually pulling the cringle backwards, and the tie round the boom is resisting being pulled back far enough. A possible solution might be to tie round the boom, then take the end of the line back and tie it off at the boom end. The idea being to ensure that the tie round the boom is slightly aft of the position of the pulled down cringle, thus ensuring that tensioning the rope pulls the cringle back as well as down.

The second problem is friction, and a block suspended from the cringle, with a leather patch sewn to the sail to prevent chafe, will help.

 

[nigelmercier]

if your single line reefing ends in a bowline securing the rope round the boom the only thing pulling backwards is the line tension through the cringle, and not actually pulling the cringle backwards...

One assumes the reefing line goes to the aft end of the boom, therefore there is a large backwards component to the pull, which increases as the cringle gets closer to the boom.

 

[vyv_cox]

My problem comes at the next stage. I can't outhaul the reefed sail enough to get the foot flat. At least, I get scared of breaking something before getting to the sail flat because the tension in the line is getting pretty monstrous. This seems to be due to friction at the cringle. Any suggestions for getting the foot flat?

Ensure that the halyard is sufficiently freed first. With a lot of wind in the sail the boom flogs up and down to quite an extent, which seems to give a vertical component to the clew reefing pennant. I find that lifting the boom while hauling helps to get rhe foot flat.

 

[oldvarnish]

Another way of looking at it (although it would be dumb to do it this way, it may make it easier to follow): tie a bowline on the end of the line, pass the other end around the boom, through the loop in the bowline, then up to the cringle ...

My Seldén manual says that this knot is mandatory.

I just had my single line reefing replaced and that's exactly what the rigger did. Works fine, and makes sense.