Best chain hook for a catamaran bridle

[Irish Rover]

I'd be interested to learn which type of chain hook posters would recommend for use with a catamaran bridle. I'm sure other cat users will understand the difficulty in maintaining tension when deploying the bridle which results in many hook types regularly falling off. I'm also looking for a hook that's easy to attach and detach when there's tension on the chain. I've been looking online at the Mantus and Wichard hooks but I've no practical experience of using either and a friend has suggested a soft shackle but I've never seen one used for this purpose either. Any and all opinions/advice greatly appreciated.

 

[Dunx]

I’m sure Neeves will be along shortly to give you a very authoritative reply?

 

[vyv_cox]

Yes Neeves is the man for catamaran bridles. My experience of the Wichard is that the release is far too fiddly, at least in 8 mm size.

 

[Trident]

I have the Wichard but the pin gets very sticky with salt
I just fitted a Mantus for a friend and am very envious at the simple but strong design

 

[Neeves]

You need to read this article first.

Safety at Sea: Surviving a Powerful Storm in the Med


Its about monohulls but it describes the difficulties of changing from an everyday snubber to a storm snubber and details how a Witchrd chain hook bent. I, and others on this forum, have used a Witchard chain hook - and the retaining pin has bent in use making it impossible to withdraw the hook without recourse to a mole wrench. The Witchard hook is not cheap, is frankly a disgrace and is an accident waiting to happen. The Original Mantus hook was withdrawn, it also bent. The new Mantus hook, the claw device - like the one on the right in the YM article is also difficult to release under tension. You need slack to retreive and align the claw to release, having slack is possible but you struggle to align. Have a look at the 3 rd link, below, for a cat bridle plate and how to use it. The Bridle plate is easy to make but you can buy from Viking Anchor.

The art of snubbing, in the nicest possible way - Mysailing

How to boomerang your anchor right back at you - Mysailing

Adjustable Snubber Bridle and Chain Hook for Multihulls - Practical Sailor




If you look at the stainless hook, a clevis hook, top left (below) you will see I have used a slightly longer clevis pin and inserted a stainless gate. I have had to add some washers to get the fit of the gate correct. But you can flip the gate round with your thumb whilst holding the hook in one hand. So easy to release and secure. I made the gate from a little piece of scrap stainless. I had the other hooks galvanised but I threaded the hole at the end to take a little bolt and then fixed a fibre glass gate to the bolt. I've not found a way to attach a gate to the eye hook - it has defeated my imagination. However these, apart from the stainless hook (sourced from a chandler) the other hooks are cheap as chips from any lifting supplier. They are all engineered and the chain fits the slot neatly - you really do not need a gate.






Testing the Effects of Chain Hooks - Practical Sailor


We use a bridle plate, as described in one of the articles - there are number of variants I have devised since the article was published. See how you get on with the reading list and I might be able to help you further.

Jonathan

 

[Neeves]

Most catamaran bridles as supplied are not snubbers. They are simply too beefy. Seawind use the bridles, when shipping the newly built cats in Vietnam to Oz, to lift the cats using a crane, so transom down, bow up.

The bridles supplied are fine as bridles but offer a minimum of snubbing ability - they simply do not stretch. They are strong enough as described to lift the cat but not stretch - and this is despite the obvious that cats have a high windage. For snubbing you need something thinner, smaller.

We have found 10mm climbing rope to be adequate, 38' x 7t cat, and use 30m each side, or for each hull.

It is not uncommon for people to use a short snubber on any yacht, a 3m snubber is very common. It takes the load off the windlass (assuming the snubber is not attached to the windlass but a strong point) but offers no snubbing ability.

If you are sailing far and wide you really need an everyday snubber and as the article above illustrates a storm snubber. If you simply sail when the weather is 'nice' then the need for a storm snubber of bridle is significantly reduced. The alternative is an ability to convert the everyday snubber for strong wind events (which is why we have 30m snubbers - to extend when we, or the meteorologists, get the forecast wrong). But again the article above illustrates that 'adding' or 'converting' to a storm snubber needs planning as working on the bow when winds are blowing anything over 40 knots is not a bundle of laughs.

There are many ways to skin a cat, there is no one right way to rig a snubber of bridle - lots of options - its what is best for you and your yacht.

Jonathan

 

[Irish Rover]

@Neeves Thank you for taking the trouble to write such a long reply. I looked on the Viking website but I can't see the bridle plate you mention on sale. Do you have any idea where I might buy it?

 

[Pinnacle]

Use a soft shackle.

 

[Neeves]

@Neeves Thank you for taking the trouble to write such a long reply. I looked on the Viking website but I can't see the bridle plate you mention on sale. Do you have any idea where I might buy it?

Long reply? - knowledge is of little value unless it is shared - you are most welcome - you have no idea the people who are critical of long replies

Send an email to Izi Kalvo - izikalvo@gmail.com he will tell you the position. Tell him you have contacted him as a result of a thread on YBW. I do know he is travelling and may not reply till next week. I have also heard comment from members here that courier charges are a bit OTT. See what happens and then let me know - I have a variety of fixes. When you contact Izi tell him your chain size.

What is your cat and chain size?

I now see you are in Turkey, and I think Izi might be on his way to Greece (and the Bridle Plates were being made in Ukraine) - so maybe courier is not such an issue. So tell Izi where you are located - it might be convenient. I thought he had stock in Belgium and maybe Israel.

A soft shackle will not work, easily, if you want to have a bridle that can be extended from the cockpit and it will not be particularly neat.

Jonathan

 

[Irish Rover]

Long reply? - knowledge is of little value unless it is shared - you are most welcome - you have no idea the people who are critical of long replies

Send an email to Izi Kalvo - izikalvo@gmail.com he will tell you the position. Tell him you have contacted him as a result of a thread on YBW. I do know he is travelling and may not reply till next week. I have also heard comment from members here that courier charges are a bit OTT. See what happens and then let me know - I have a variety of fixes. When you contact Izi tell him your chain size.

What is your cat and chain size?

I now see you are in Turkey, and I think Izi might be on his way to Greece (and the Bridle Plates were being made in Ukraine) - so maybe courier is not such an issue. So tell Izi where you are located - it might be convenient. I thought he had stock in Belgium and maybe Israel.

A soft shackle will not work, easily, if you want to have a bridle that can be extended from the cockpit and it will not be particularly neat.

Jonathan

Thanks again. I'll send the email. I'm actually going to Tel Aviv for a football match in 4 weeks time so that might just work out.
My cat is a FP Greenland 34 power cat 10.4 x 4.45 metres. My chain is 8mm.

 

[Irish Rover]

Use a soft shackle.

I'm certainly prepared to give one a try. What do you recommend for my 10.4 x 4.45m power cat.

 

[vyv_cox]

Thanks again. I'll send the email. I'm actually going to Tel Aviv for a football match in 4 weeks time so that might just work out.
My cat is a FP Greenland 34 power cat 10.4 x 4.45 metres. My chain is 8mm.

I think Izi is going to be in Leros marina next week.

 

[Irish Rover]

Most of the anchoring I do is in quiet sheltered bays in shallow water and I use the bridle which is attached to each hull. This, as @Neeves mentions, has a short span of around 3 metres and is probably too strong to offer any snubber benefit. It's fine, however, for keeping the boat from any excessive swinging and i can connect and detach it between the "bow roller" and the windlass. For overnights I use a longer snubber bridle with a standard chain hook which is an absolute pain to attach because of the design of my cat. My anchor roller is 1.6 metres aft of the bow actually in the anchor locker. So attaching the short bridle is no problem but for the snubber I have to go fishing for the chain over the bow rail. It's a real pain.

 

[Pinnacle]

I'm certainly prepared to give one a try. What do you recommend for my 10.4 x 4.45m power cat.

Use the biggest diameter dyneema that will comfortably pass though a link.

 

[Irish Rover]

Use the biggest diameter dyneema that will comfortably pass though a link.

I've no experience of using a soft shackle so what dia do you recommend for 8mm chain.

 

[Neeves]

We use 6mm high tensile chain the I found it exceedingly difficult to thread even the thinnest dyneema soft shackle through the very small link. It will be easier with 8mm chain, but I have no experience, and I wonder how easy it is on a wet night when you are tired and its bouncy.

You can attach a variety of hooks with your eyes closed.

This hook, below, is developed by Viking and looks good to me - but its for a single snubber not a bridle

June 20, 2022

The vid shows the hook being attached inside the bow locker - which is not good practice as it will not run over the bow roller - but the attachment is fine if the installation is made forward of the bow roller.

With a bit of lateral thinking this hook could be used for a bridle - but maybe Viking can offer a Bridle Plate

Jonathan

 

[mikegunn]

I've no experience of using a soft shackle so what dia do you recommend for 8mm chain.

Personally I wouldn’t bother with any type of shackle or chain hook. Had a very expensive Wichard chain hook open up and slip off the anchor chain under a shock loading.
The simplest way to attach a rope to a chain is by using a rolling hitch knot. The rope can be attached to the chain in seconds and the knot can also be easily undone. As I said, simple!
Mike

 

[Roberto]

I'm certainly prepared to give one a try. What do you recommend for my 10.4 x 4.45m power cat.

As a textile solution you may try this, it's a long soft shackle which is Machard/Kleimheist knotted around the chain, then closed after having passed inside the eye of the snubber.
The picture above is not clear (and the shackle has a cover which I personally would not bother with), imagine the knife being the chain and the tape roll being the snubber eye.
You say you have difficult access to the chain, this solution will turn easily around the gypsy so that may help, just be careful it does not snag the metal "finger" below, in the middle of the lower half of the gypsy.
Just an idea

 

[vyv_cox]

Personally I wouldn’t bother with any type of shackle or chain hook. Had a very expensive Wichard chain hook open up and slip off the anchor chain under a shock loading.
The simplest way to attach a rope to a chain is by using a rolling hitch knot. The rope can be attached to the chain in seconds and the knot can also be easily undone. As I said, simple!
Mike

I have seen many rolling hitches that had to be cut off after big blows. It has been argued that they were not tied correctly, maybe so, but it is not a risk I want to take. See the video at the bottom of this page for my preference. Snubbers. Not for a catamaran bridle, my monohull.

 

[mikegunn]

I have seen many rolling hitches that had to be cut off after big blows. It has been argued that they were not tied correctly, maybe so, but it is not a risk I want to take. See the video at the bottom of this page for my preference. Snubbers. Not for a catamaran bridle, my monohull.

I’m sure that if the snubber rope is of comparatively small diameter relative to the chain a rolling hitch may well jam. I‘ve always used a minimum of 19mm three strand nylon snubber line in conjunction with 8mm chain. I’ve always found the knot easy to break open because, regardless of anchoring loads the final half hitch has always been unstressed. Of course, there’s always next time.
When a Witchard chain hook failed on me my vessel was hit by a katabatic wind which rose from zero to 70 knots in as many seconds. The anchor dragged into deeper water and then suddenly caught on something immovable. Despite the snubber line stretching the shock loading was still transferred to the Witchard hook, which opened up as though made from plasticine. I’d fitted the Witchard because I thought that it would be better than a rolling hitch that I’d been using for many years.

Mike