Best 50 Foot Boat

[Bouba]

I think the motivation for ips is the joystick. The easier you make a boat handle the bigger boat you can sell to a customer.
The Navetta that I see regularly is in such an awkward berth I’m not sure it could get out to sea without ips

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

I think the motivation for ips is the joystick. The easier you make a boat handle the bigger boat you can sell to a customer.
The Navetta that I see regularly is in such an awkward berth I’m not sure it could get out to sea without ips

J with a bow thruster and stern thruster and a modicum of practice you can get a shaftdrive boat into any berth an IPS boat can get into. I always do wonder what an IPS boat helmsman is going to do when (not if) his magic joystick packs up. At least with a shaftdrive boat, the helmsman is always having to use his throttles and gears to manouvre his boat so when his thrusters pack up he has some residual skill and experience to fall back on

In any case, if you really want one, you can get joystick control for shaftdrive boats these days too

 

[Anders_P42]

Thanks W for the link, that's an interesting video indeed, which puts the myth of IPS efficiency in perspective.
And even more so considering that Absolute has a reputation for exploiting IPS to its best...

At first, I made a mental comparison with the numbers of my boat, designed 20+ years ago, shafts powered and larger.
But they did not pass my rough sanity check, so I had to verify them with the tables, and here's the result:
The Abs 50 is 2m shorter and 10T lighter.
BUT, she burns 130lph more at her WOT speed of 27kts, and 115 more at the suggested cruising speed of 25kts.
That means a whopping 65% more fuel required to push a smaller and lighter boat at the same speed.
Oh, and her range is about one third.

Laughable numbers I suppose, if they weren't true...

They screwed up fuel burn figures, 100% load on D6-435 will burn 83lph per engine at 3500rpm.

 

[Portofino]

J with a bow thruster and stern thruster and a modicum of practice you can get a shaftdrive boat into any berth an IPS boat can get into. I always do wonder what an IPS boat helmsman is going to do when (not if) his magic joystick packs up. At least with a shaftdrive boat, the helmsman is always having to use his throttles and gears to manouvre his boat so when his thrusters pack up he has some residual skill and experience to fall back on

In any case, if you really want one, you can get joystick control for shaftdrive boats these days too

A good point .
@ about the 50 ft mark ,they seem to appeal to newby boaters willing to spend mentally about €1M on “project boating hols “
Had a nice Eng couple bitterly disappointed with there brand new one ( Azimut irrc ? ) ,he was time poor and fed up with being marina bound waiting for techs to come out to fix gremlins.
It was his 1 st boat became dependent on the joystick.
My neighbours Sessa 46 - used boat- ,they live in Bordeaux new to boating wooed by the floating apartment side and sold on the ease of parking - again marina tied if there’s an issue .
Reliant on the stick , I’ve lost count of how many times there’s little blue boxes of wiring harness or ECU ,s opened on the rear sun pad while techs take his dash apart .
Or the plume of rainbow oil on the surface when he starts up .Best on was when the bilge pump startd to empty hydraulic oil out when we were all having drinks 7 pm ish one summer night - again incapacitated for 3 days while the right pipe arrived .
Point is there a demand from newby entries and IPS is attractive to them .

Edit - the Eng guy feeling confident one of his precious 1 week ( time poor ) hols set off to St Trop ,
Empty berth for a couple of months - wife and I thought we misunderstood the msg ?
Turns out they hit an underwater object and the boat was hauled in Cogolin - needs a whole new pod as the gears were goosed - insurance job financially but spoilt summer .
They listed it after one season .

 

[Switch]

J with a bow thruster and stern thruster and a modicum of practice you can get a shaftdrive boat into any berth an IPS boat can get into. I always do wonder what an IPS boat helmsman is going to do when (not if) his magic joystick packs up. At least with a shaftdrive boat, the helmsman is always having to use his throttles and gears to manouvre his boat so when his thrusters pack up he has some residual skill and experience to fall back on

In any case, if you really want one, you can get joystick control for shaftdrive boats these days too

Don't forget that an IPS boat can be driven in the same way as a stern drive boat with steering and gears. Your bow thruster could pack so you'd be in a similar situation as if the joystick failed on an IPS boat.

 

[MapisM]

Your bow thruster could pack so you'd be in a similar situation as if the joystick failed on an IPS boat

Nope, not even remotely similar.
Which was in fact Deleted User point, as I understood it.

 

[Switch]

Nope, not even remotely similar.
Which was in fact Deleted User point, as I understood it.

The supposition, if I understand correctly, is that IPS boat owners don't have 'residual' skill to handle their boats if their joysticks pack up. My point is that, like myself, most owners of IPS boats are not new to boating and are quite capable of handling their IPS boats if necessary using throttles and steering alone. I don't have a bow thruster so I use IPS only for the last few feet when docking (when I would have normally used a bow thruster) this was the similar scenario I was trying describe.

 

[PowerYachtBlog]

Edit - the Eng guy feeling confident one of his precious 1 week ( time poor ) hols set off to St Trop ,
Empty berth for a couple of months - wife and I thought we misunderstood the msg ?
Turns out they hit an underwater object and the boat was hauled in Cogolin - needs a whole new pod as the gears were goosed - insurance job financially but spoilt summer .
They listed it after one season .

The horrors of IPS. Kinda like having the Volvo DPH stern drives on a bigger boat which adds to the bills in $$$ if parts and labors.
I do not know how this system is being supported by the many but in my experience of selling used boats the IPS600 units are nothing of impressive.

 

[Switch]

The horrors of IPS. Kinda like having the Volvo DPH stern drives on a bigger boat which adds to the bills in $$$ if parts and labors.
I do not know how this system is being supported by the many but in my experience of selling used boats the IPS600 units are nothing of impressive.

Funny you should mention DPH drives, my previous boat had DPH drives (42ft boat). I owned the boat for nine years and found them very reliable albeit expensive to service. The stern drive doom and gloom brigade didn't put me off buying a stern drive boat and the IPS doom and gloom brigade haven't put me off buying an IPS boat.

 

[MapisM]

The supposition, if I understand correctly, is that IPS boat owners don't have 'residual' skill to handle their boats if their joysticks pack up. My point is that, like myself, most owners of IPS boats are not new to boating and are quite capable of handling their IPS boats if necessary using throttles and steering alone. I don't have a bow thruster so I use IPS only for the last few feet when docking (when I would have normally used a bow thruster) this was the similar scenario I was trying describe.

Aha, I see. Well, I can agree with all that, 'cept the "most owners of IPS boat are not new to boating" bit.
In my experience, you are rather an exception than the norm. The large majority of IPS boaters I met, not only were at their first boat, but openly admitted to have been hooked to a large extent by the WOW joystick effect - in fact, most of them ('cept one who had to replace both pods a few months after the warranty expired...), take it as a given also for their next boat.
Of course I didn't mean that an IPS boat as such implies a poor helmsman, and if that's how my comments came across I apologize.
Otoh, I fully agree with Bouba when he says that the joystick is a KSF among newcomers.

 

[MapisM]

my previous boat had DPH drives (42ft boat). I owned the boat for nine years and found them very reliable

Well, if that doesn't prove that you are definitely an exception, I don't know what else does!

 

[Nigelpickin]

Mapism - Jumping on those erroneous fuel burn figures with such glee as tho’ it justifys your anti IPS partisan position is kind of weird, to me at least...and the assumption that the vast majority of IPS owners are new to boating and what that implies is just a load of old tosh.
I’ve owned a motor boat of one sort or another for 25 years and only bought one IPS boat, in 2012. The guy who bought my boat has only ever had shafts up until now and all the Prestige owners that I’ve met are far from noobs. I don’t know what your motivation is for making this stuff up - it’s just so at odds with most of your contributions on here which are knowledgable, informative and considered. If I didn’t know better I might think that you’re in the pay of the anti IPS lobby....

But back to the OP - the Prestige is now IMHO under powered on the IPS 600, with a hi/lo swim platform, flybridge and fully loaded, I recon you’d be struggling to get up on the plane without a couple of racing scrubs per season. We bought the sports top and loved it but even that was maxing our at 23kts after a couple of months of growth. That being said, our boat would often achieve 5ltrs per mile @ 22kts and about 6.5ltrs wide open, (30kts when clean), which we felt was pretty good.

Thing is that since the Prestige 500, (now face lifted to 520), was introduced in 2011 - things have moved on. The boat was peerless for a couple of years from the point of view of interior volume and the master suite but now it sits in a very competitive segment and there’s loads of others to consider...

The Galleon 50ft Flybridge is one, the 53 ft fairline and Sealine are two others...there’s just so much choice. I’d be making a long list and then emailing your dealers for private viewings and yard visits so that you can really get your head into the game and see what’s going going to suit you best....but if money is no object, for me the Princess is hard to beat.

 

[TonyR123]

Not sure there is such a thing as best 50ft flybridge. You make a list of what you want (or don't) and everyone's is different. For me length was an issue and I didn't really want to go too much above 15m (for the mooring). So that rules out the sunseeker manhatten 52 and fairline squadron 53. If that isn't a problem then a good chance I would have bought one of those. If really a 50ft then surely you would be looking at the princess 49 rather than 55? That was ruled out for me due to bunk beds in 3rd cabin. I really liked the absolute 50 but ruled that out in the end due to brand new hull and also quite a flat hull compared to others. Someone else will not have an issue with this and that is fine.

I also have no issue with IPS. In fact I quite like it and would probably want this again. So I would not be put off by this. Only had the boat for a year so cannot really comment on maintenance costs or issues, but I think they are fine so far. Guys who look after my boat have not heard of any issues with IPS as long as you service regularly. I get the boat lifted twice a year mainly to replace all anodes but as lifted get the hull cleaned as well. Engines/pods serviced yearly and I also have a 5 year warranty on them.

Also consider what support you will get from the dealer. I would go to Cannes/ Düsseldorf where the all the boats will be in one place. Names I considered were absolute, cranchi, ferretti, fairline, prestige, princess, sunseeker, sealine. I looked at one or two offerings from al (am sure I have forgotten a few I saw). All ranging from 15m to 18m. In this range I don't believe there is a bad boat.

 

[jrudge]

Mapism - Jumping on those erroneous fuel burn figures with such glee as tho’ it justifys your anti IPS partisan position is kind of weird, to me at least...and the assumption that the vast majority of IPS owners are new to boating and what that implies is just a load of old tosh.
I’ve owned a motor boat of one sort or another for 25 years and only bought one IPS boat, in 2012. The guy who bought my boat has only ever had shafts up until now and all the Prestige owners that I’ve met are far from noobs. I don’t know what your motivation is for making this stuff up - it’s just so at odds with most of your contributions on here which are knowledgable, informative and considered. If I didn’t know better I might think that you’re in the pay of the anti IPS lobby....

But back to the OP - the Prestige is now IMHO under powered on the IPS 600, with a hi/lo swim platform, flybridge and fully loaded, I recon you’d be struggling to get up on the plane without a couple of racing scrubs per season. We bought the sports top and loved it but even that was maxing our at 23kts after a couple of months of growth. That being said, our boat would often achieve 5ltrs per mile @ 22kts and about 6.5ltrs wide open, (30kts when clean), which we felt was pretty good.

Thing is that since the Prestige 500, (now face lifted to 520), was introduced in 2011 - things have moved on. The boat was peerless for a couple of years from the point of view of interior volume and the master suite but now it sits in a very competitive segment and there’s loads of others to consider...

The Galleon 50ft Flybridge is one, the 53 ft fairline and Sealine are two others...there’s just so much choice. I’d be making a long list and then emailing your dealers for private viewings and yard visits so that you can really get your head into the game and see what’s going going to suit you best....but if money is no object, for me the Princess is hard to beat.

Agree. Technology moves on and iPs gives handling benefits yes but also a smaller engine package giving more interior space and economy so there are many reasons to buy ( including you just might like the boat !)

I have only seen one manoeuvre once in an anchorage and the amount of wash as he tried so do a 360 was a sight to behold. It looked like a school of piranas having a long Sunday lunch !

 

[MapisM]

If I didn’t know better I might think that you’re in the pay of the anti IPS lobby....

LOL, is there such thing? Maybe I should send them an application!

I'm sorry to have annoyed you NP, but it clearly ain't personal, and the fact that your good self and Switch have IPS boats is all well and good, as long as you are happy with your choice.
Hopefully, that doesn't restrict me (or anyone else) from posting different views/experiences, though.

When I said that most of the "IPS boaters" I came across were newcomers, I really meant it.
I can think of at least a dozen of them, two of which (including the one who had to replace the things) are good friends of mine, while the others are just boaters passing in my marina with which I had a chance to have a chat. Actually, coming to think of it, ALL the IPS boaters I met were newcomers, bar none.
Btw, a few of them actually came to our boat to chat, after seeing myself and swmbo mooring a boat larger than theirs, with neither thrusters nor other tricks.
In fact, they couldn't get their head round the fact that such possibility exists... I kid you not!
But of course, I never chased the owners of each and every IPS boat I saw, just to ask them how many boats they had before.
So, for all I know, that dozen or so of folks might well be the only IPS newcomers on the planet. That's just my experience so far, nothing else.
I can imagine, now that there are 100'+ IPS boats, that most of their buyers aren't newcomers, though nowadays young HNWI who jump straight into large boats are not so rare...
Regardless, for the records, the implication which you call "a load of old tosh" was actually made by Deleted User first, not by myself.

Ref. jumping on the wrong numbers of the Absolute test, guilty as charged, your honor.
I have zero problems to admit that I didn't think enough about them to understand (which was easy, in hindsight!) that THOSE were indeed a load of tosh.
Now, you might suspect that I actually understood that beforehand and deliberately used the numbers anyway, but don't you think that it would have been a silly idea, even if I were really on the payroll of some anti IPS lobby? The mistake was so obvious that my comments wouldn't have withstood the forum test for long. Which is in fact what happened, and rightly so.

All that said, you know what is REALLY funny?
My previous comments still stand even when making the comparison with the correct numbers, i.e. with HALF of the fuel burn posted in that video - see the table below.
Bearing in mind that my boat is 2m longer, half a meter larger and 10T heavier, I still can't for the life of me see where the IPS efficiency is.
And that's without even mentioning that the Abs struggles to reach 27kts at WOT/3600rpm, while my DP reaches 33kts fully loaded... :ambivalence:

 

[kashurst]

The horrors of IPS. Kinda like having the Volvo DPH stern drives on a bigger boat which adds to the bills in $$$ if parts and labors.
I do not know how this system is being supported by the many but in my experience of selling used boats the IPS600 units are nothing of impressive.

Sorry can you explain your last sentence, I am confused.
Is the ips600 very impressive or not?
What do second hand buyers think about ips in general?

 

[PowerYachtBlog]

Now that IPS 500 and 600 are over a ten year span we (brokers and surveyors) can start to talk of what they are about minus the marketing spin gave by owners and boat builders alike.
If maintenance is done by the book they do not give much problems but over the years they start to get bit and peaces which really needs attention.
The big problem are the clutches and at a cost of 2k a pop excluding labor it is no cheap operation. Volvo did an update in 2014 but how good they are its just a guess at this stage.
Some mechanics are told me the new clutches should last longer and others are saying the clutches will last 8-10 versus 4/5.
Another problem in used boat I am finding is that many mechanics are not installing the clutch update.
The main problem with the clutches (IMO) is that they are not designed for the stress the joystick use creates and the gearbox go forward and reverse in rather high RPM.

So compared to shafts where the problems and service at this stage of an age of boat (ten years) will be minimal unless you hit something and your props started to degrade they are rather a big expense even so more then surface drives for example.
Second hand buyers love them and many are sold with the system because not frequent boat users nightmare is to have guests return to the berth and the return experience is to put the boat back in its place becomes a nightmare.

 

[MapisM]

The big problem are the clutches and at a cost of 2k a pop excluding labor it is no cheap operation.
Volvo did an update in 2014 but how good they are its just a guess at this stage.
Some mechanics are told me the new clutches should last longer and others are saying the clutches will last 8-10 versus 4/5.

Fwiw, that matches exactly what my usual yard (official VP) called the "typical maintenance pattern" of IPS in their experience.
Worth mentioning also that we are strictly speaking of pleasure boats, so 5 years translates in a 500 hours or so lifetime, on average.
To put that in perspective, the ZF350 gearboxes I've got are rated for 2500 hours of YEARLY USAGE.
And that's in P boats applications, vs. unlimited hours when mated to continuous duty engines with lower power - go figure.
I won't say more, looking for my coat now, waiting for NP reaction...

 

[Nigelpickin]

No major reaction from me, after all I’m now a marine Luddite, anything more complicated than a sail, sheet and halyard is over engineered imo...

It’s interesting to compare second hand anecdotes to first hand experience, but if we deconstruct the 100 hours per year usage assumption then the whole conversation is just a distraction.

I mean depreciation, general maintenance and dock fees will always be the main factors, £1k pa contingency for the clutches, (it would be great to hear from any of the IPS owning fourumites in this regard cos I’m not aware of any of the 2011 - 2013 Prestige 500’s that have experienced problems, surely there must be some needing the new clutches now?), is just peanuts, in context.

Layout, comfort, looks, general build quality and curb appeal will be far more important factors for most potential buyers of a 50’ motor boat than the drive system.
Depreciation, mooring fees and general upkeep costs will feature higher on the spreadsheet than service costs, (altho’ I don’t for one minute pretend that IPS service costs are at the low end).

So it’s not that I’m constantly trying to disagree with your views on IPS boats, I just think they are a little irrelevant in the grand scheme of things.

 

[PowerYachtBlog]

So it’s not that I’m constantly trying to disagree with your views on IPS boats, I just think they are a little irrelevant in the grand scheme of things.

Not exactly. On the service side yes. On the handling side they become, cause any salesman will point how an IPS boat and its joystick make it easy to handle in close quarters.
So if you are coming from a stern drive boat of 40 feet plus with most of these having an under powered bow thruster this is music to your ears.
So the male side is sold, now lets work the female with the beds and the saloon, and the entertainment areas.