Best 46' Fly

Paul_S123 said:
Wow is it just me...or are boat brokers VERY unresposive :ambivalence:
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Certainly seems to vary a lot. Had some very attentive ones from abroad and some who are pants. Was called by a broker in the UK earlier today following-up on my interest on a boat. Told him I was having one surveyed tomorrow and said that I'm surprised he called as most UK ones don't bother to follow up. If I owned the brokerage I would not be happy. Perhaps they just have so much business they can't keep up but doubt it as everyone seems to be saying that it is fairly quiet or certainly has been up to now.

One that has been very good is Ryan from Burton Waters - no affiliation, simply impressed with his efforts and attitude. It's a shame but it doesn't look like I'll be buying from him but that's part of the job I guess.
 
"One that has been very good is Ryan from Burton Waters - no affiliation, simply impressed with his efforts and attitude. It's a shame but it doesn't look like I'll be buying from him but that's part of the job I guess."
+1 - I spoke to Ryan quite a lot last year when I was looking, good attitude. If looking in the med, try Macasailor, young guy Spanish guy called Christian - similar attitude.
 
The 48 wears well holds up very well to aging .They appear well made and people gravitate towards Cranchi after frustrating U.K. build quality issues .

The two owners near me came from Phantom 46,s both U.K citizens .
 
Do you mean that they found FL build quality "frustrating" and they are now much happier with Cranchi? Really?
Mind, I neither have reasons to dismiss Cranchi (I actually bought one of their boats, and btw she's one of the few which held her value nicely upon resale) nor to "defend" FL, but generally speaking I'm not sure I would so clearly put the former higher than the latter in a theoretical ranking list of build quality...
I mean, everything is relative in life of course - I wouldn't be surprised if a Royal Huisman owner gets frustrated by FL build quality, but then again, it's hard to imagine that he wouldn't with Cranchi either! :rolleyes:
 
MapisM said:
Do you mean that they found FL build quality "frustrating" and they are now much happier with Cranchi? Really?
s:
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Yes

Examples
Leaks
Sagging headlinings
Patio doors dropping out
Teak veneers not as durable
Interior carpentry falling to bits
Too much Velcro holding stuff up
Etc etc

These issues don,t appear with the Cranchi Med 48 —- same age
As said there’s a durability that you won,t see at a boat show or when they are 3 , but 10 or 15 then “ differences “ emerge .
The cream colour although not to everyone s taste is as you know better than Snow White in terms of gel coat appearance 15 years down the line in the med .
Incidentally Cranchi were I believe one of the first to use a carbon fibre Matt this has held up well the hull integrity with the passing of time .
Remember FL at the time we’re foam coring and fitting a inner skin , moot point as think it’s just a glorified liner .
Note Vripack have dropped this double mould foam matrix technique btw .

You just don’t know as the decades pass if or what there’s gonna be some delaminating- hard to detect .
Not thinking heaven head seas - nope thinking yard !
Yup yard !
so a boat aged 15 or so presume it’s had 15 lifts and blocks ? - nice to see some evidence of maintaining it ?
That’s hoists then blocking off on the” keel “ .

My guys @ my yard tap the hull with there knuckles and move the blocks fwd / backwds so,s to position them under the most solid sounding areas .
Then lower it to the final resting point - taking great care .

So I asked the operator, why all the fuss ? Why not just evenly by eye space the blocks along the keel L and just plonk it down .

He told me they can warp and bend , not a lot , some more than others if the blocks are not under the strongest parts .

Good on them .

Makes me wonder how many ham fisted yards are out there ?
Owners ending up with leaking windows, Mal fitting doors , groans and rattles etc etc .

Oh and inadvertently delaminating those boats with linners or internal moulds glued in .

Again walk round any boat show and you won,t see this , buts these boats are 15-20 years old by now .
 
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Portofino said:
Yes

Examples
Leaks
Sagging headlinings
Patio doors dropping out
Teak veneers not as durable
Interior carpentry falling to bits
Too much Velcro holding stuff up
Etc etc .
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Yes and after my experience of owning a Targa 48, I would add using self tapping screws to secure bits that should be through bolted, shower doors which keep falling off, glued soundproofing panels falling onto hot engines, exhaust elbows breaking, grp bulkheads cracking and fitting useless HFL aircon units. It was that experience and previous bad experiences with British boats that pushed me into trying Italian boats

Actually I have been around the Cranchi factory in NE Italy many years ago. Even then it was a highly productionised facility producing what looked like functional but well built boats. Their styling has never been to my taste but a Cranchi 48 in good order at the right money could be a reasonable buy
 
Paul_S123 said:
Any comments about this, the broker has indicated he would sell for about 195k euros...

https://www.rightboat.com/gb/boats-for-sale/cranchi/atlantique-48/rb225410

Anyone based or been based in Malta?
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Wow, the market has firmed up a lot in the last 3 years if that's the case.

I like the 48, it was on my list though primarily because in 2015/16 you struggled to give them away. And I'm not talking UK, I'm talking med (though not Italy).
When I was looking 03 boats were asking €130-150k. Truro Ex-Pat had one - PM and ask him what he got for his.....

Nice boat, I like it but I cant help feeling at €200k euros there is better out there.
 
Portofino said:
Leaks
Sagging headlinings
Patio doors dropping out
Teak veneers not as durable
Interior carpentry falling to bits
Too much Velcro holding stuff up
Etc etc
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Well 2) and 4) are hardly the fault of Fairline! As for too much velcro, I'd much rather have velcro than having panels glued in place, never to be removed again.

Leaks and patio doors dropping out... usually easily fixed.

And I must say, I'd hardly rate Cranchi as making a product superior to Fairline, more mass produced and comparable to Sealine in their day. Not that I'm bias of course :)!
 
I have had an offer accepted on a 2007 Cranchi 50. It has only 380 hours, a years warranty and just 380 hours. Any pre signing advice?
 
Paul_S123 said:
I have had an offer accepted on a 2007 Cranchi 50. It has only 380 hours, a years warranty and just 380 hours. Any pre signing advice?
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Have the boat surveyed and sea-trialled.
Satisfy yourself that the owner has good title.
Get an engineer to check the engines and take oil samples.
Get sight of the service records.
Ensure the paperwork is all present (bills of sale, builder's certificate and VAT invoice).
Make sure you understand the limitations of the warranty.
 
cranchi 50 atlantique looks lovely,
D9s nice smooth engine, when you do the sea trial watch the oil pressure and temps. cooling system may well want rinsing out after 11 lowish use years. Engine rpms should increase at roughly the same rate. If this boat has the EVC display it reveals all temps and pressures so check oil and turbo boost pressure at different engine speeds. The engines should give pretty similar values.

possible weak point on the 2007 ish engine is the flexible fuel pipe from the on-engine fuel filter into the cylinder head: part number 3883147
if they have not been replaced with the later version then replace them. £100 each, easy to do - 30 mins.
but if they split makes a terrible mess and engine will stop.


good luck with it
 
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Paul_S123 said:
I have had an offer accepted on a 2007 Cranchi 50. It has only 380 hours, a years warranty and just 380 hours. Any pre signing advice?
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Yup. I have bought a number of used boats abroad so my advice is

1) Assuming you are buying this boat through a foreign broker whom you do not know rather than a UK broker, do not give your deposit to the broker. The reason for that is that if the worst comes to the worst and the survey/seatrial reveals serious faults, you have the right to back out and expect to get your deposit back. Foreign brokers have been known to find excuses not to give you your deposit back. If possible appoint either a reputable UK broker or a UK marine lawyor (eg Ward & McKenzie) to act as an independent broker who will hold your deposit. The foreign broker wont like that and it will cost you extra money but it is to safeguard your deposit. If for any reason you cannot do this then negotiate the deposit to an absolute minimum, say 2% max 5% but certainly not 10%
2) Make sure you use a truly independent surveyor and engine technician (to survey the engines during the seatrial). If you are not satisfied that you can get an independent English speaking surveyor and engine technician locally, fly them in from the UK. Yes this will cost you but this may save you from buying a lemon and even if the boat is basically sound, a good surveyor can still give you negotiating points to chip away at the price
3) On the day that you pay over the balance to complete the purchase of the boat, make sure that you are present at the boat to take possession of the boat the second your money hits the broker's account and if possible move it to another marina or better out of the country altogether. Yes most sellers and brokers are entirely trustworthy but you do not know if there are any outstanding loans or debts on the boat or even whether it will still be there when you eventually turn up to move your stuff onto it. Possession is 9/10ths of the law so take possession of the boat as soon as you have paid for it
 
petem said:
Well 2) and 4) are hardly the fault of Fairline! As for too much velcro, I'd much rather have velcro than having panels glued in place, never to be removed again.

Leaks and patio doors dropping out... usually easily fixed.
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Eh? Who's fault is it then? Better boatbuilders dont just velcro wall and ceiling panels in place. They also secure them in place at the edges with trim panels and timber fillets so if the velcro does loosen the panel doesnt fall off. And as for patio/shower doors falling off, they may be easily fixed but it isnt acceptable. You wouldnt expect your car door to fall off so why would you expect it on a boat?
 
Deleted User said:
Eh? Who's fault is it then? Better boatbuilders dont just velcro wall and ceiling panels in place. They also secure them in place at the edges with trim panels and timber fillets so if the velcro does loosen the panel doesnt fall off. And as for patio/shower doors falling off, they may be easily fixed but it isnt acceptable. You wouldnt expect your car door to fall off so why would you expect it on a boat?
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I assume that sagging headlinings are a fault with the adhesive and the issue with the lacquers used at that time is well documented and impacted other boat builders. As I said, I wish my headlinings were velcro'ed in place, as they are today they won't come off even if I pull them as hard as I can! Yep, I concede that velco plus some timber fillets etc would be better but do Cranchi really make them like that (seems a little at odds with their high volume reputation)?
 
I looked at a lot of different makes last summer, expecting/hoping to find a decent 40 ft fairline/princess
saw a lot of makes I probably would never have considered in the UK, crawled around a lot of engine bays and bilges

some of the design and construction ideas were much better than the usual UK builder approaches. some were not. I think Porto had a point in his earlier post about build issues. I had a patio door come out (sealine f43) that was not nice. Fortunately we were at anchor and a Pilot boat came shooting past really close and we rolled like crazy. Big friend of mine was able to grab hold of it quickly. If it happened at sea (come off a big wave or broach badly) I don't know how you could deal with it.
 
petem said:
I assume that sagging headlinings are a fault with the adhesive and the issue with the lacquers used at that time is well documented and impacted other boat builders. As I said, I wish my headlinings were velcro'ed in place, as they are today they won't come off even if I pull them as hard as I can! Yep, I concede that velco plus some timber fillets etc would be better but do Cranchi really make them like that (seems a little at odds with their high volume reputation)?
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Dunno but if Cranchis suffer from the same kind of faults then its not acceptable either. I am always surprised how all of us seem to accept faults on boats that we wouldnt accept in other areas of our lives
 
Deleted User said:
Dunno but if Cranchis suffer from the same kind of faults
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It's been a while since the last time I've been onboard a Cranchi, but generally speaking they use a LOT of GRP moulds also for the interiors, hence using very few (if any) velcro-ed or otherwise attached stuff.
That's of course something which only makes sense with high production numbers, and gives a somewhat utilitarian feeling to the interiors, but it's a choice that imho does make sense on a boat, mostly for practicality and durability reasons.
Whether to call it a "better" finishing vs. more traditional construction, that's a matter of personal preferences, to a large extent.
Ferretti for instance does the same, albeit not as much as Cranchi, and only in their smaller boats.
 
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