Berthing

[steveej]

Hi all,

I was hoping to pick some more experienced brains re Berthing.

I am in the process of buying a boat and have been offered a berth at the local marina. The boat is a long fin keel and 22ft long. I presume the same principle of berthing apply to a 22 ft boat as the do to a 30ft+ boat? I believe a Long fin is terrible in reverse.

The berth lies Starboard side of the fairway, starboard side too, at the very end of the fairway by the quay side. The predominant wind direction is from starboard when approaching bow first down the fairway.

There is no tide.

Now I'm thinking this is quite possibly the worst berth possible for a number of reasons......

1) it is a closed berth
2) it is right by the quay side so there is limited room for maneuvering
3) the predominant wind direction will be blowing me out of the slip and off the pontoon.

To exit the berth, I think the best solution would be a spring (doubled the length of the boat) over the end cleat on the pontoon attached to my starboard stern cleat. This will allow me to reverse out (assuming I am berthed bow first) and once my full boat length is clear of the pontoon and my neighbor I will start swinging to starboard in a reverse direction. Once stern is pointing up and out of the fairway I can release the spring and apply some power and reverse out of the fairway.

Does this sound like a good plan? Are there any other options or pitfalls with this approach?

The engine is an outboard that sits in a lazarette locker and steerage is via the tiller - do these still suffer from prop wash?

On the way back in I am struggling to come up with a good approach. It is a closed berth so if I approach up the fairway bow first, I effectively have to overshoot the approach to turn back in on myself, but because it is quay side there is very limited room to do this.

The alternative of reversing down the fair way and reversing into the berth has the advantage of the stern seeking the wind when coming along side the pontoon, but is a lot of reversing and I am worried about having decent enough steerage.

What would you do?

 

[johnalison]

It certainly sounds challenging and I wish you and your neighbour luck. I have no experience of handling a 22' boat with an outboard but I think that general principles apply.

Firstly, you need to make friends with your neighbour and ensure that you are both well fendered since there will always be occasions when you touch.

Reversing in sounds like the worst option, not only because it will be difficult unless you get it exactly right first time but also because you may return to your boat and find that it is impossible to leave because you are unable to turn the bow into the wind and exit up the fairway.

A bit of springing will often be needed. Assuming that your boat weathercocks in the wind, it will have a natural tendency for the bows to blow off onto your neighbour, so a means of holding the bow up to windward may be needed. Single-handed, your spring from the stern may be all that you can easily control but a slick means of casting it off will be required, since you may need to keep your speed up.

In a similar position I would actually exit quite fast to get steerage way on and let the wind do the work of steering me in the fairway. Neither of us know yet whether prop-walk will be a problem. If it is to starboard in astern, this will assist, though it may make arrival harder. There is no disgrace in turning into a berth and settling gently onto a leeward neighbour.

Maybe it might be possible to find a vacant berth nearby with easier access and practise there.

 

[NickRobinson]

It gets easier.... honest!
Can you control the outboard thrust direction? Even a (22') long keeler should behave astern if you can just point the reversing OB where you want to go, returning it to centre line when you feel the rudder start to bite.

 

[Seajet]

steveej,

it would be very helpful to know if the rudder blade is in front of or behind the prop', it sounds like the engine is in a well ?

Also would be handy to know the boat type, she sounds like a Hurley 22 ?

 

[jamie N]

My own boat's a 26' long Folkboat, and I do have a potentially "challenging" marina berth, however I use the outboard on my boat, a Honda 2.3hp with great manoeuvrability as it's got 360 degs. of rotation. This works well in allowing absolute control of thrust direction when close up and personal with other boats, and pontoons. However, I do have to control it by standing at the transom, on top of the stern locker which isn't the best location for me, but by judicious use of power and momentum it works very well for me. Coming alongside is done very slowly in order to get the lines on, and isn't an issue as the controllability allows for a much more variable approach. By the way, I'm pretty much singlehanded at all times, and have found this method to not be a hindrance.

 

[steveej]

The outboard is fixed in position in a well. The rudder is in front of the prop.

 

[ghostlymoron]

With a small boat, don't be embarrassed to warp it round so as you don't have to reverse.

 

[Seajet]

As the rudder is in front of the prop, there's still a lot of hope for reversing when the prop wash will be over the rudder blade.

Once way is established, keep speed down so the rudder doesn't take over and slam the tiller out of your hand.

I find reversing in my 22' boat is a very handy manouvre in tight spaces, it can get funny looks and requires confidence but can be really useful especially if the wind may blow the bows away, if one tries it bows first.

My boat is not the same format as yours ( fin keel and rudder behind prop ) but if anything yours might be better.

I think you have the right idea with springs, bearing in mind the simplest method of dropping a line from roughly your midships then motoring against it with tiller lashed to keep her put while you go around sorting lines.

Leaving should hopefully be a case of letting the stern line go so it drops downwind a little then let go the bow line ( maybe doubled to the cockpit but watch out to keep it aboard when released or it will home in on the prop ) while engaging forward.

Remember there are tricks like ' drudging ' with the anchor on a short scope dragging on but not digging into the seabed, this is handy for keeping the bow in check not wandering too far off when going astern - BUT one has to know the seabed, and where there are pontoons there are often mooring wires...

Good luck, I'm sure after a few tries with a padded or non-harmful boat hook handy you'll develop a routine, and the fact you mention springs from the word go bodes well.

 

[Uricanejack]

I often choose to go ahead and back up. Get some funny looks from time to time, This may be due to my fashion sense. or lack of sense according to my daughter. or going astern. Backing into the wind is often easier. An awkward berth once you get used to it, is no longer awkward for you. Fin keels are generally well behaved going astern. Hard to say how your boat behaves until you try it. even a longer fin is much more responsive than most other hull forms.
The out board position may have quite an impact. the big questions are can you reach it easily? and can you turn the outboard? If you can do both backing in is often the easiest way to go particularly since you can also see well.
If the outboard is firmly fixed in one direction, difficult to reach and behind the rudder. the boat will be awkward to handle going in any direction. I would pick a different boat.

 

[Amulet]

I don't think you are as badly off as you fear. Getting out with the wind blowing you off shouldn't be too much of a problem. If you simply cast off your lines and do nothing the wind will blow you out. If there's tide pushing you one way then a bit of a nudge with the engine to avoid running forward or backward may be necessary. Going in shouldn't too much of a problem, though potentially a bit tricky single handed. Get a crew member to stand forward of the shrouds and go ashore with a belly line. Put the front of the boat in to enable this. Attach the middle of the boat and then manhandle her into place - she's only little.

I too have a long keeler, and I much prefer berths where the boat wants to go out than wher she wants to go in. Normally getting out is harder than getting in as you need to get from zero to enough speed to steer. Being pinned on a leeward berth is a nightmare.

 

[ex-Gladys]

I'd just modify Amulet's response by saying that the mid-line cleat should be just aft of the widest part of the boat, then once the mid-line is attached, idling ahead with a bit of rudder will bring the boat alongside and keep her there....

 

[steveej]

Ive been reading up on sing handing and docking procedures with a mid ship cleat.

Sounds great, problem is I don't have one.

The mid ship stanchion has a place for attaching a block (like to run a furling line back from the foresail). Do you thing it is worth a try using a line on a foresail winch running through the block at midship and then down to the pontoon cleat? I don't like the idea because it sounds like I'll break the stanchion.

I'm struggling for mid ship strong points.

 

[Seajet]

steveej,

how about those cleats one can get especially for this eventuality, which slide on the headsail sheet track ( assuming you have one ) ?

Barton make them, and almost certainly others, I'll see if I can find an illustration - of course these do assume the headsail sheet track is well reinforced under the deck.

Here you go;

http://www.bartonmarine.com/products-special-cleats.asp

 

[Uricanejack]

One of those annoyances. I have with a second hand boat. No amidships cleats.
I use a line secured to the base of the shrouds. not ideal but it works.

 

[steveej]

Thye're clever.

I haven't seen those before, thanks for posting.

 

[doug748]

I have something similar to Seajet's idea but with part no 25210:

http://www.bartonmarine.com/products-genoa-cars-and-sliders-for-25mm-track.asp

It was cheaper than a cleat and the line runs nicely through it back to the winch. Not as strong though, and I would prefer a cleat although it would be trip hazard. My headsail track only gives 1/3 forward of the stern - nowhere near midship. However I now have proper midship cleats but I find I still use the track when coming alongside, so I think you would find it very useful.

Don't get fixated with big boat tactics on a 22 footer though. When departing you will achieve a lot just by shoving it in the right direction. When arriving, in modest conditions, just get ashore with your lines rather than faffing about. You don't have tide to worry about - that is worth diamonds.

I don't think there will be any prop kick at all with your outboard and I would not consider trying anything in reverse before having a go, in duckpond conditions, away from the marina.

The question that frightens everyone with a boat that will not perform in reverse is:

Will the Bow go Though The Wind?

Because if it won't, leaving or arriving, you can find yourself pickled and stuffed (To mix a metaphor).

As others have said, fender up, and don't be afraid of going alongside the next berth

 

[steveej]

Doug that is great advice.

Whilst chartering out of a solent Marina last year I had a nightmare trying to get out in about a force 6 wind, bow kept getting blown back as soon as I changed from reverse to neutral. Back and forth, back and forth eventually got out.

The sailing over to Osbourne bay went fine, dropped the hook had lunch, on arriving at Cowes Yacht haven it was about 5:30pm and it was rammed. I had reserved a berth a few days before and at the NCM just off Cowes I radioed through to get the berth number. Anyway, someone was in my berth, so I slowed down, gust of wind spun the bow and as the bow was now heading towards the starboard row of parked boats I panicked and hit reverse.

Worst thing I could have done as I basically got jackknifed in a 31 footer. Again, back and forth, back and forth, to get a line ashore and someone to warp me around.

We promptly left and headed straight for east cowes where we didn't seem to have a problem with more room to maneuver and less wind. How I didn't scratch anything that I day I will never know, but it was probably the most stressful 10 minutes of my life.

I am keen not to repeat the experience.

I am hoping that having my own boat will sort these problems out as I will be able to practice and get to know the characteristics. When I pick the boat up a week Saturday I will try and find some empty pontoons to play around on first, and get used to reversing.

 

[pyrojames]

With a small boat, don't be embarrassed to warp it round so as you don't have to reverse.

With ANY boat don't be embarrassed to warp it out. I have something not so small and frequently warp round or out. They did it hundreds of years ago, why should you be embarrassed to do it now. Entirely professional in my opinion.

 

[Seajet]

Completely agree re warping in & out, it can also be a handy way of turning her in her own length, if you have 22' + a little bit spare room, to poise for departure or just avoid wind blowing into the hatch.

My 22' boat does have significacant prop throw from the 5hp outboard especially when selecting astern gear, but as long as one knows about it from trying in clear water first as I mentioned, it can usually be used to advantage.

I think you'll be fine Steve, it's the people who don't care enough to think about it in advance and ask, who charge straight into problems...:encouragement:

 

[pvb]

Is this the only vacant berth in the marina? I'd decline to take it, and explain that the characteristics of your boat mean that you need a bit more manoeuvring room. Marina managers generally want to avoid boats banging into each other and are usually sympathetic to individuals' needs.