cmedsailor
Well-Known Member
What is the connection between Beneteaus and Jeanneaus? I though they belong to the same group of companies and share things (eg hulls). But if this is the case why Beneteaus are more expensive?
Thanks
Thanks
Beneteau - Jeanneau; connected?
- Thread starter cmedsailor
- Start date
matelot
Well-Known Member
same company.
a good business motto - "a cost is a fact but a price is a decision". In short you charge what you can
a good business motto - "a cost is a fact but a price is a decision". In short you charge what you can
Norman_E
Well-Known Member
Since Beneteau bought Jeanneau they seem to be positioning the latter as their budget brand, which is a pity because older Jeanneau boats were as good if not better than contemporary Beneteaus. I met someone this year with a year old Jeanneau 54 who is very pleased with the way the boat performs, but equally displeased over the internal finish, in which the "woodwork" is actually a plastic material, which is peeling off in places. He was quite envious of my ten year old boat's interior finish.
minkysailing
Well-Known Member
You can't help but think that with the way the economy is going the Beneteau group aren't exactly going to be in a position to improve upon both the Beneteau and Jeanneau build quality as most would agree at the recent Southampton Boat SHow they appear to have hit rock bottom in this department...!! Sadly Bavaria have suffered the same blight that being their recent models are far inferior in build quality to the model of 7/8 years ago...Aren't new models of any product meant to be an advance and improvement on old ones?? I personally feel all that remains in the mass production market of any decent quality now are maybe Dufour and Hanse....
matelot
Well-Known Member
careful minky - you'll wind up Bav34 saying things like that. And once started .................... /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif
minkysailing
Well-Known Member
Truth hurts sometimes...!!!!
flaming
Well-Known Member
I would not be at all suprised if this downturn stretches out to see Jeaneau dissapear.
The two makes are too similar, and I'm sure that for many customers the final choice is often between the jeanneau and the Beneteau. So why go to the extra cost of having another line when it's not actually gaining you sales?
The two makes are too similar, and I'm sure that for many customers the final choice is often between the jeanneau and the Beneteau. So why go to the extra cost of having another line when it's not actually gaining you sales?
Tranona
Well-Known Member
Depends on how you define "build quality". From observation the structure and engineering, at least of the Bavaria, because I follow them closely having seriously considered buying a new one to replace my 2001 37, has improved. Not that it was bad before.
For example if you look at the new 43 the hull, keel, rudder, rig etc is perhaps an improvement. The cockpit layout and particularly the stern set up is good. But, Oh the interior. Ikea would be ashamed of it. They tell me they have gone down this route to compete with the others. But to compete you need to be at least as good, but to take a poor idea and then do it worse is not good.
Seems to me they take 1.5 steps forward and one step back and it is the interior that hits you in the face. So I went back to my old boat, and decided that I already had the best compromise.
I do wonder what the flat pack interiors will look like in 10 years time - if you can bear to look at them for that long.
For example if you look at the new 43 the hull, keel, rudder, rig etc is perhaps an improvement. The cockpit layout and particularly the stern set up is good. But, Oh the interior. Ikea would be ashamed of it. They tell me they have gone down this route to compete with the others. But to compete you need to be at least as good, but to take a poor idea and then do it worse is not good.
Seems to me they take 1.5 steps forward and one step back and it is the interior that hits you in the face. So I went back to my old boat, and decided that I already had the best compromise.
I do wonder what the flat pack interiors will look like in 10 years time - if you can bear to look at them for that long.
minkysailing
Well-Known Member
Agree flaming, not exactly looking fantastic for Jeanneau at present when they don't even have a replacement for Sea Ventures and we are only 4 week away from the Boat Show....any news on a replacement yet? anyone??
minkysailing
Well-Known Member
"They tell me they have gone down this route to compete with the others"
That has to be the best sales quote I have heard in years...so let me get this straight you drop your quality to complete with the competition....that would suggest everyone else is dropping their quality which is not the case....This alone would make me run a mile from them...Stand by my personnal opinion that for value for money vs quality it would be a Dufour or Hanse.
That has to be the best sales quote I have heard in years...so let me get this straight you drop your quality to complete with the competition....that would suggest everyone else is dropping their quality which is not the case....This alone would make me run a mile from them...Stand by my personnal opinion that for value for money vs quality it would be a Dufour or Hanse.
flaming
Well-Known Member
Yes.
Lymington yacht charters are the new agents, I think under a new name, Lymington yacht sales or something.
Lymington yacht charters are the new agents, I think under a new name, Lymington yacht sales or something.
matelot
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
"They tell me they have gone down this route to compete with the others"
[/ QUOTE ]
but they arent - they are significantly more expensive than Bav.
"They tell me they have gone down this route to compete with the others"
[/ QUOTE ]
but they arent - they are significantly more expensive than Bav.
minkysailing
Well-Known Member
So no Jeanneau dealer in Hamble only in lymington now?
flaming
Well-Known Member
That's what I understand. Though when I spoke to LYC, I don't think they weren't talking about big numbers atm. They use Jeaneau boats in their fleet, and so I think were already an import point, but weren't selling to punters because of agreement with Sea Ventures, but will now hapily sell to the public.
I might have missed the finer points though, I was halfway through my 3rd guiness when I had this conversation.
I might have missed the finer points though, I was halfway through my 3rd guiness when I had this conversation.
Tranona
Well-Known Member
No the quote referred to Bavaria.
Resolution
Well-Known Member
The key difference in the past has been production methods, not perceived quality levels. Beneteaus moved earlier onto hull construction methods that were easier for mass production. Jeanneau avoided double skin hulls and stuck with slightly more expensive lay-up methods. However recently construction developments have been used equally in both lines. I would agree with you that they will probably take advantage of the downturn to push through more rationalisation, both in production and in marketing.
Tranona
Well-Known Member
Precisely. Having prospered partly I think because they continued to offer a semblance of solidity (if you ignore the naff plastic chart table surround and other little plastic nick nacks) they follow the worst trends. I dont have a problem with reduced wood content so long as it is done with style.
On the 43 the main bulkhead has what looks like granny's ornament cabinet complete with sliding glass doors. So badly made MFI would have put it in the reject corner. Just looked at the new 35 (why? when they have just got the package almost right with the 34 which is what I was considering buying) and it is the same "style".
As to dropping quality, measured by livability appeal and quality of fitout then Beneteau have - in relation to their price, so Bavaria is only following the trend, but at a faster rate!
On the 43 the main bulkhead has what looks like granny's ornament cabinet complete with sliding glass doors. So badly made MFI would have put it in the reject corner. Just looked at the new 35 (why? when they have just got the package almost right with the 34 which is what I was considering buying) and it is the same "style".
As to dropping quality, measured by livability appeal and quality of fitout then Beneteau have - in relation to their price, so Bavaria is only following the trend, but at a faster rate!
Cerddinen
Well-Known Member
The significant change for Jeanneau (and, I guess, Beneteau and Bavaria) was the move away from bonding the bulkheads to the hull and deck. The .2 series Jeanneaus had bonded bulkheads whereas the i series have bulkheads that simply slot into place. This must weaken the structure unless there is clever engineering of the hull and deck to compensate.
Tranona
Well-Known Member
Not sure that is such a big issue. Jeanneau I think now use a resin transfer system which produces a much stronger lighter hull that does not depend on the bulkheads for strength.
The use of heavily bonded bulkheads in the past was because hulls were weak and floppy without them. So that becomes a good feature - if you need it!
I think that Bavaria still bond to the hull - mine is and the ones being built in the promotional video of a couple of years ago were. They are not bonded to the deck, but slotted and filled with sealer. Rather unsightly, but there are no signs of movement on mine. All the doors still open and shut and all the sealer is still in place.
IMHO it is a mistake to judge current building practices by the standards of the past. Have a look at my rather longer explanation on the Moody vs Bav thread of a few days ago.
The use of heavily bonded bulkheads in the past was because hulls were weak and floppy without them. So that becomes a good feature - if you need it!
I think that Bavaria still bond to the hull - mine is and the ones being built in the promotional video of a couple of years ago were. They are not bonded to the deck, but slotted and filled with sealer. Rather unsightly, but there are no signs of movement on mine. All the doors still open and shut and all the sealer is still in place.
IMHO it is a mistake to judge current building practices by the standards of the past. Have a look at my rather longer explanation on the Moody vs Bav thread of a few days ago.
