Beneteau First lost her keel, four good men lost at sea.

> OK what is your explanation of how lightweight boats got a Cat A ocean rating.

The most controversial part of the STIX calculation, has always been having an absolute minimum size and displacement requirement for CAT A. There was huge disquiet in many areas including the press, owners and manufacturers, that setting a categoric minimum size and displacement would make it very unlikely that boats smaller than 32 feet could ever qualify as "ocean going'. Smaller boats would need to have very high displacements to qualify, such as the Vancouver 28. The whole 'Jester Challenge' movement has been born out of the exclusion of small and / or light boats from events that require a minimum STIX of 32 (the RCD requirement for CAT A). Expert after expert highlighted the safe and seaworthy passages made by light and small boats, but it was felt by the committee, that as a rule, larger and heavier boats are more seaworthy and that again, the litmus test was a boat like the Contessa 32 should represent the cross over point.

So let's take your surveyor's claims that the French had that minimum limit lowered: Well, how can this be? If the CAT A requirement had originally (before the French pressure) been even a smidgen higher it would have excluded the Contessa 32. That would hardly have been a sustainable argument after all the years the Contessa 32 has been promoted as epitomising the ultimate seaworthy design! So the committee who derived the STIX calculation (itself largely based on the RORC SSSN thinking), formulated a methodology that in effect said: "Oceangoing boats should be AT LEAST as seaworthy as the Contessa 32" and that has remained the standard to this day.

Anyone interested in yacht safety can easily follow the development of the STIX requirement and the thinking that has gone on since the Fastnet in 1979. It's lineage is laid out in all the books and papers. At no point is there some weird deviation from the line of thought that might be assigned to undue influence by the French. That's just petty jingoistic poppycock.

So if it's not stability and seaworthiness that the French nobbled, is it scantlings and construction? Well in the years prior to the RCD there were no minimum construction requirements. The large ship survey companies did have some codes if manufacturers chose to use them. Some of these were very conservative (Lloyds) and some less so (ABS). You could even have these 'houses' certify either your methodology or even supervise the whole construction process. But there was two fundamental problems: Firstly cost (most buyers didn't value the increased purchase price) and secondly, as most of the scantlings were empirically derived, the codes were slow to adapt to new technologies. For a while ABS tried to remain current and most ocean races required 'construction to ABS', but in the end ABS gave up doing 'plans approval' as not being 'worth the effort'.

So the RCD was almost forced to included scantling and constructions in its requirements. But what a headache - to be tasked with trying to do something that everyone else had given up on. It was a massive undertaking to develop one system that could ensure all boats, that were built for all purposes, of all materials, were sound, durable and affordable. Despite serving so many masters, the ISO standard has proved to be pretty workable but even so, the RCD does allow several methodologies to be used to prove structural integrity, and as a result, modern boats of all sorts are proving to be fit for purpose and affordable.

But as with any standards, could they be higher? Well, of course! Is there grounds for making them higher and does the boat buying public want to pay for higher standards? Well that is for the boating community to decide. As an example (as it's been mentioned so often recently) - the grounding requirement: At what speed should you be able to run aground without sustaining damage? Should that speed be for hitting a granite ledge or soft east coast mud? Should it be for a rigid cast iron keel or more deformable lead? With cars we accept that if we nudge another in a car park, we expect the bumpers to bounce back, but if we hit a wall at 15mph, it's possible the car could be written off. But we all expect to get out with the lowest amount of personal injury. Well the same should be for boats - it's unreasonable to expect the minimum requirement to be that you can plow into all and sundry and sustain no damage (If that's your personal need then you can sort out a solution for yourself).

We know next to nothing about the demise of Cheeki Rafeeki. A lot of the speculation has been at best ill informed. But whatever the causes, it's simply absurd to try and suggest that its fate shows some sinister failing in the way the RCD or their component ISO standards were formulated. The RCD and ISO 12215 in particular had a difficult and protracted birth (and some wish it had never made it out of Intensive Care), but it has achieved its aims of simplifying trade within the EU by establishing minimum standards. However when buying any boat, caveat emptor remains good advice. If your knowledge of boats extends no further than being able to recognise the letter 'A' on a little brass plate, then I would suggest your ocean going project is more at risk from your poor knowledge base, than by any rumour the French nobbled the requirements of the RCD.
 
Last edited:
Ah, a passage plan could /should include bolt holes to allow for troubles , changes in weather and crew /boat troubles. Rather better to work out all the options before venturing out on long voyages. Can be done with a clear mind, and any S and R have a good idea of the possibilities considered by skippers.

How many boltholes are there between Antigua and Europe?
 
Just picking up on the STIX calculation I have heard it said (and I don't know how much truth is in this) that some manufacturers barely scrape through the test and to do so they must have an almost empty boat with minimal crew and no extras such as 'radar, reflector, or mast head lights' mounted on top.
In some case if in mast furling were selected as an option it would take the boat below the min stix requirement.
So the test itself is not necessarily reflective of the boat that is sailed across the pond.
Any thoughts on this?
 
It's more likely for the keel to hit something then drop off, than just drop off through use, is it not? :)

I imagine that designers have to take fatigue into account too, what with keels shedding vortices and so on. I don't know how significant a problem it is, though.
 
... formulated a methodology that in effect said: "Oceangoing boats should be AT LEAST as seaworthy as the Contessa 32" and that has remained the standard to this day.

Bearing in mind the Contessa 32's track record, the idea that it is a barely acceptable ocean going yacht seems a tad odd.

Mind you, I have never been able to see why RCD category matters. Who would stop me taking a Drascombe Lugger across the Atlantic if I wanted to?
 
Last edited:
Just picking up on the STIX calculation I have heard it said (and I don't know how much truth is in this) that some manufacturers barely scrape through the test and to do so they must have have an almost empty boat with minimal crew and no extras such as 'radar, reflector, or mast head lights' mounted on top.
In some case if in mast furling were selected as an option it would take the boat below the min stix requirement.
So the test itself is not necessarily reflective of the boat that is sailed across the pond.
Any thoughts on this?

Well there is a minimum 'load case' for doing the stability calculation. It stipulates what is and isn't included. It therefore standardises the figure from boat to boat.

But the 'in service' load condition will of course be different. Some things will be detrimental (weight up high) and some a benefit (increased displacement).

But boats with borderline figures advertise themselves as having just that! They are borderline. You can often look at the boat and estimate why the figure is low as there are lots of components to the calculation. If it had shallow draft and a low ballast ratio, I would be wary of fitting in-mast furling.

One component that I do believe is controversial, is the contribution that deck house volume makes to lowering the AVS. We all know that modern lifeboats are selfrighting because the 'buoyancy' of the wheelhouse when inverted means it immediately rolls back upright again. Clearly they have an AVS of around 180°, but to achieve this, the windows and doors are guaranteed to remain intact and watertight. And they certainly look like they would! But I have seen very different windows and doors on some deck saloon yachts that also claim an AVS of 180°. So yes, marketing departments are not the purveyors of the whole truth. But hey, that's hardly the best kept secret in life.
 
Bearing in mind the Contessa 32's track record, the idea that it is a barely acceptable ocean going yacht seems a tad odd.

Mind you, I have never been able to see why RCD category matters. Who would stop me taking a Drascombe Lugger across the Atlantic if I wanted to?

You can do what you like in a Drascombe - the RCD is only relevant when the boat is first placed on the market.

And having done a long ocean crossing in a Longboat, I would say all their limitations are obvious without looking at the little brass plaque.
 
Well I disagree, if the type of passage plan that I referred to, an authority would have to sight and agree the plan, in this particular case I understand that the Storm force conditions were known of, for some timt, so unlikely that the passage taken might not have been given the OK . The more southerly route was the preferred rote at this time of the year, as we are given to understand, perhaps this was not appreciated by the yacht crew, but others knew and understood this information. The more southerly route was also a lot safer, as we are given to understand, so this raises questions for any investigation.

If compolsory suitable radio is a requirement, then the whole journey is surely infinitely safer, so I would suggest that the status quo should not be allowed to continue.

Changes, radical and authoritarian, are perhaps really necessary.

On the basis of one case for which there has not yet even been an inquiry yet alone anything approaching an explanation?
Despite the lack of any real information you are proposing a whole layer of bureaucracy which would probably mean any trip would be delayed for days while the cogs of some pen pushing organisation slowly grind away. And who would pay for all this?
 
You can do what you like in a Drascombe - the RCD is only relevant when the boat is first placed on the market.

Even then I can't see what the point is. If it doesn't restrict what you can do with the boat, why does it matter? My current boat is not RCD, because it was built a wee bit too soon, but later versions were. It never bothered me and I don't even know what category the later ones are in.

So ... serious question ... to whom does it matter, and why?
 
........One component that I do believe is controversial, is the contribution that deck house volume makes to lowering the AVS. We all know that modern lifeboats are selfrighting because the 'buoyancy' of the wheelhouse when inverted means it immediately rolls back upright again. Clearly they have an AVS of around 180°, but to achieve this, the windows and doors are guaranteed to remain intact and watertight. And they certainly look like they would! But I have seen very different windows and doors on some deck saloon yachts that also claim an AVS of 180°. So yes, marketing departments are not the purveyors of the whole truth. But hey, that's hardly the best kept secret in life.


Yes.

And particularly perhaps when cabin and hull windows are the opening variety. Side doors, on the other hand, tend to bust deckhouse boats down to Cat B, regardless of the boat's size and stability characteristics.

It has crossed my mind that light, beamy boats may benefit, out of proportion to it's worth, from the downflooding element of the calculations.

Of course I don't really know but the suspicion is, that makers don't bend over backwards to help our understanding.
 
So ... serious question ... to whom does it matter, and why?

It matters to manufacturers, because before the RCD, various countries (in particular Spain, France and Italy) had different requirements for widely varying categories of boats. American manufacturers of power boats in particular (and Sunseeker etc in the UK), were tired of having to produce separate models for the various European countries. The European commission under its 'Standardisation of Trade' mandate, asked the marine industry to come up with one universally agreeable standard so that any boat meeting such a standard would be acceptable when placed on the market in any European country.

But before there could be standards ensuring a product was 'fit for purpose', there had to be agreement on what that 'purpose was'. Hence for sailing boats there was the four categorisations to define their purpose.

If these laudable aims were 'extended' or the scope of the brief expanded, then the UK has to shoulder a lot of the responsibility. Clearly some academics were interested in the intellectual and research challenges of it all and there were some Naval Architects who (naively) thought that the role of being a 'Nominated Body' could be a real money spinner if the whole process could be made complex enough. In the end developing the standards turned out to be loads of work, huge frustrations and very little money.

But there have been a couple of factors that muddle the water a little over the years; one is some manufacturers 'exploitation' of the CAT A rating as a marketing tool. It's understandable, but hasn't helped the buying public really understand the issues. The other is racing authorities long term desire to be able to screen out unsuitable boats entered for their differing ocean races. It's obviously expedient for them to use a industry standard (STIX) as part of this but again gives rise to the idea that a simple number is some enduring indicator of a boat's suitability for service, a function that was never intended.
 
Thanks for that very detailed reply. Are there any countries in Europe which restrict the legal cruising ranges of boats based on RCD category? I completely agree that if there are to be standards, they should apply as widely and as, well, standardly, as possible, but I am still not sure how and standards per se improve things or which buyers are concerned about them.
 
Are there any countries in Europe which restrict the legal cruising ranges of boats based on RCD category?

Hah! Now you've zero'd in on one of the fears that many voiced, especially in the UK, when the RCD was first mooted. I'm not an expert of other countries' restriction on use, but I believe it is the case in some Med countries? I know that in Spain, you can't use a race boat (which are excluded from the need to be RCD compliant) unless you are practicing or racing. You can't just go 'for a sail' unless your boat has gone through the certification process. No real problem for production boats, that quite a downer on one off raceboats where the cost of compliance would have to be borne by that one boat.

The fear was (and still is, to some degree), that a RCD based restriction on use may well arrive in the UK if not through legislation, but then via the back door of insurance requirements. Why would an insurance company pay out on a loss if a contributing factor was the boat being used for a purpose for which it was never designed? Obviously at the moment, the actuaries don't believe that 'inappropriate use' is a significant contributing factor in the amounts the insurance industry pays out, but it would be a very brave soul to predict that it's not an issue we will ever have to face in the future.
 
Top