benefit of built in generator?

[sailinglegend420]

the decision is 12v or 240v boat, after that is decided which genny/power system becomes clear.

After 7 years liveaboard with a diesel 12 volt genny - and a 2.5KVA inverter - we have never wished we had gone for a 240V genny as AC is always available with the help of a big battery bank. A DC genny runs at whatever speed it needs to provide the load, so is quieter with less maintenance cost. In all that time we have never met another cruising boat with our set up, but they always show great interest in the idea.

 

[bazobeleza]

The problem I have found with the inverter is that the modified sine wave produced has fried several of my power tools with adjustable speeds ans doesn't charge small batteries very well. Admittedly I don't know if Pure Sine wave inverters are any better as I haven't tried one yet.

So for know I get away with a small mod sin inverter and use genny when needed for sensitive tools etc

 

[ariette]

if you go for a 12volt diesel genny which is the best one to go for?

 

[grumpygit]

My newly acquired yacht has a non-working 4.5KVA fischer panda diesel generator installed. Fixing the generator will entail replacing the engine, at a likely cost of £3000. Although initially she will be on a swinging mooring in the UK, we intend to use her as a full time, warm weather, liveaboard in 4-5 years time, and intend she will be fitted with +300W of solar and a wind generator. I am tempted to remove the remains of the generator and put the money towards the solar and wind generation (and mppt regulator, mounting arch etc), and to buy a smaller portable genny for around £600. I would be grateful for any views on the merits, or otherwise, of this approach

Thanks

Neil

It does seem strange to me that there are yachts on this thread with plenty of electrical equipment aboard, like laptops, microwaves, kettles, reverse cycle heating, TV's not to mention the norm of fridges/freezer, water heating, battery charging and the list goes on, but no generator.
Fair do's, a yacht used in summer with solar or/and a wind generator may manage but surely not for a liveaboard that's expecting to survive a european winter.
Even some folk that are on pontoons with shore power must exceed their rated supply and also suffer with volt drop, enough for supplies to start warming up.
I would not like to be without my generator, even in summer it's better (for us anyway) to run the generator rather than our 6 cyl 135hp main engine, plus the generator is quieter.
The FP's do have a lousy reputation for reliability and the 3000rpm of these units imo does not help.
Far better is one that runs at 1500rpm like the Onan, Northern Lights etc that do seem to have a good name for reliability, no doubt someone will tell me different!
I know they are expensive units to buy, but the portable ones that are on the market at a few hundred quid are likely to be of Chinese origin and will not take the hammer if needed for more than just occasional use, and the noise will be intrusive not only to your nieghbour but to yourselves too.

_________________________________________________________________-

 

[mocruising]

We have a 6 KVa FP that has run for 2000 hrs plus with only minor problems. I would not be without an inboard diesel gen. set the boat like many other cruising/liveaboards is power hungry. Its cheaper than running the engine and you avoid the bore glazing problems when running a larger engine off load. The new boat will however have a 1500 rpm diesel gen. set.

 

[CharlesSwallow]

There have been previous posts on the subject od portable generators and the Honda* suitcase style always seems to come out as best.

Are there huge problems about putting a portable generator in a well ventilated locker with an insulated or water-cooled exhaust to the outside world?

Not exactly "huge" but your insurers won't be happy with a DIY installation, especially when it burns you to the waterline!

The pump and heat exchanger for the water will be a bit fiddly, don't you agree?

Chas

*PS The Hondas are, certainly the quietest; but I guarantee, you will still get objections in most of the Mediterranean anchorages and harbours I frequently use.

 

[CharlesSwallow]

In all our three live-aboard boats we have had a diesel genny.
The first was a 3kw at 3000 rpm which deafened evrybody within 3 miles and shook itself to pieces over five years. I learned a lesson.
After that we used 1500rpm generators, and have done so satisfactorily for 30 more years.
They really are whisper quiet. We record neighbours who have been unaware we were generating.
They are bulkier, but a proper live-aboard yacht should make room for one.
Even smaller boats can get a belt-driven one that turns at 1500 off the main engine via a 3:2 belt so the engine is doing little more than idling quietly.
You need a control box which has an automatic cut out if Ac goes outside 45 to 55 hertz, or below 190, or above 250. Most electrical gadgets are voltage and frequency tolerant. For example, in the US Intra-coastal all our gadgets worked adequately on 60 hz (except the clock.)
We got these from Teddington Controls.
Don't buy Boat Show fancy things at dancy prices.

You know, I was beginning to think that there would never be another contributor with common sense to contribute to these forums.

Hope you didn't get stung for fees in KW?

Regards

Chas

 

[CharlesSwallow]

Can't beat a big genny, Yes I have an inverter, a windgen, and solar panels, in fact shortly fitting another 160w to the 80w I currently have. The genny however is the ultimate back-up, when you need 240v for power tools, when you want the microwave, kettle etc etc, wack on the genny. Sometimes the sun doesnt shine, sometimes the wind doesn't blow and occasionally the gas runs out. and all the time the fridge is drinking electricity so on goes the genny!

**
You will notice a vast difference by that alone. 80watts is sufficient to cover natural losses plus a bit. 240watts will keep up with your fridge which is your largest long-term load.

Chas

 

[KellysEye]

>Its cheaper than running the engine and you avoid the bore glazing problems when running a larger engine off load. The new boat will however have a 1500 rpm diesel gen. set.

Agree, also with the 1,500 rpm. I wouldn't touch a 3,000 after the problems we had with one. We made full use of a 4kVA Westerbeke by having a 240 volt fridge and watermaker, we also used it for battery charging and hot drinks. We ran it one hour in the morning and again in the early evening. When it wasn't on a wind generator kept the house batteries charged. 240 volt kit tends to be commercial and lasts longer than 12 volt boat kit, which is primarily designed for weekend/holiday sailors.

By the way if anyone is looking to buy a 1,500 I asked a number of engine/generator repair shops which generator they least had to repair. The yellow Jersey went to Northern Lights and a very close second was Westerbeke, which we bought because it has a better worldwide network of dealers with spares. I did ask about FP and they showed me a total of 75 in their workshops that couldn't be repaired but they were keeping for spares.

 

[charles_reed]

I can see why people want plumbed in gennys. In Greece one often arrives at the usual crowded quayside, populated by charter boaters who live off of taverna food and pre-cooled drinks so the fridge is of minimal value to them. YOU have a fridge full of expensive food which will go off if you can't get power overnight. After their darling little Essex daughters have run their hairdryers off of the boat's inverter (& therefore main engine) making a great stink before going ashore , they are the first to complain if you run your genny for an hour or two to keep your vital and expensive food fresh.

We manage with the smart alternator and big efficient solars but only just. We DO use the genny on occassions but these have usually managed to co-incide with our visits to remote anchorages.

Why don't the charter companies tell these awful people that they are TEMPORARILY entering the environment of people who aren't just on a holiday jolly but seriously trying to LIVE on their boats? When they get back to fitting double glazing in Colchester or whatever they do, the people they have left behind, probably never to re-visit, will still continue to struggle for enough power to live adequately.

Chas

Sympathise entirely with your sentiments, Charles - that's why I try to avoid charter destinations.
Regarding the OPs other post, some points:-

1. If you are going to rely on renewables, you need a large battery bank - I find 326w of solar panel only gives me 5 days use @ anchor using 330 AH of battery.
I'd suggest double this capacity, if you can fit it in.
2. You really need to balance PV with windgen, whilst the capital cost of PV panel is about 1/2 that of windgen capacity, there is a definite limit to how much PV area you can get on a boat and windgen is usually working when PV panels aren't.
3. Everyone I've met with a Fischer Panda has been a dissatisfied user - get a low-revving genset (1500rpm) for longevity and low obtrusiveness. It's an expensive route to go and only worth it if you intend to have all possible electric bells and whistles.

 

[ccscott49]

Sympathise entirely with your sentiments, Charles - that's why I try to avoid charter destinations.
Regarding the OPs other post, some points:-

1. If you are going to rely on renewables, you need a large battery bank - I find 326w of solar panel only gives me 5 days use @ anchor using 330 AH of battery.
I'd suggest double this capacity, if you can fit it in.
2. You really need to balance PV with windgen, whilst the capital cost of PV panel is about 1/2 that of windgen capacity, there is a definite limit to how much PV area you can get on a boat and windgen is usually working when PV panels aren't.
3. Everyone I've met with a Fischer Panda has been a dissatisfied user - get a low-revving genset (1500rpm) for longevity and low obtrusiveness. It's an expensive route to go and only worth it if you intend to have all possible electric bells and whistles.

I have an FP4.0 kw set, I have had numerous small;er p[roblem,s and two major ones, the alternator stator burnt out or rather short circuited and now I need a rebore or new cylinder and piston, compression is well down and its not the valves, this repair will copst me about 300 euros, the unit has done in total 3500 hours, so I'm not too displeased with it. But it is now being relegated to back-up use and I'm fitting a westerbeke 1500 rpm, 6kw set. I will be double silencing the FP, as it is a noisy exhaust at 3000 rpm. The water jacket on this FP machine, is heat exchanger cooled, which solves the old sea water cooled system, problems of corrosion. I wouldnt be without an inbuilt genny.