Belgium Again!

[Tin Tin]

https://www.rya.org.uk/newsevents/news/Pages/court-rules-against-HMRC-over-red-diesel.aspx

Court ruling was in October 2018.

7 months down the road, where are we?
What have HMRC, BMF, RYA, etc... , come up with to comply with the court ruling?
What are they waiting for? Indicative votes in parliament?

 

[Seven Spades]

Correct they should make white available but offer the same rebated tax. Every boat has to declare who they are so it would not be difficult to identify any fraud.

 

[Seven Spades]

My guess they are waiting for an outcome on Brexit. Which makes perfect sense, why go to all the trouble and expense if we are leaving and can make our own rules? If we don’t leave we will have to comply.

 

[Champagne Murphy]

My guess they are waiting for an outcome on Brexit. Which makes perfect sense, why go to all the trouble and expense if we are leaving and can make our own rules? If we don’t leave we will have to comply.

We can make whatever rules we like, but visitors ‘over there’ will still have to have white in the tanks. In fact even more so after the B thing

 

[Seven Spades]

No I don’t think so. The finding of the American yacht was subsequently found to have been a mistake. Yachts from third countries are exempt under international agreement.

 

[GHA]

I believe you are missing the point of "Marked Fuel" here, as previously mentioned Marked has always been the basic issue. If you had bought red @ £10 a ltr it would still be illegal

Nope, the Belgians said something definite and short term which went beyond that. It's in the link.

 

[Fr J Hackett]

Correct they should make white available but offer the same rebated tax. Every boat has to declare who they are so it would not be difficult to identify any fraud.

It is up to the customer to comply with the relevant legislation, if Marinas don't sell their red diesel because people that use it cannot go to an EU country without risking a fine they will eventually convert but if because the bulk of their buyers never go "abroad" and are quite content to avail themselves of cheap red then they will not change. However those souls that wish to voyage abroad to the EU territories where there be dragons will have to risk it or clean their tanks and fuel up from Tesco or some other suitable outlet with cans.
Take your pick it's not complicated.

 

[[3889]]

Possibly badly briefed but one cannot reasonably contend that enforcing the law of his/her land indicates a lack of training. I'm continually surprised by the naivety of those who rely on a diplomat or politician's statement that law enforcement officers will refrain from policing their laws, I'm struggling to see a similar scenario where the police/HMRC in this country would bow to political direction to not enforce laws

Decriminalisation of cannabis, assisted suicides via Dignity to name but two, not critically but as an observation. I think the UK would be a better place if the separation of powers was strictly observed but it is not and so the police and CPS make up 'law' on the hoof. I suspect the same political meddling with the rule of law takes place in Belgium.

 

[Old Harry]

Possibly badly briefed but one cannot reasonably contend that enforcing the law of his/her land indicates a lack of training. I'm continually surprised by the naivety of those who rely on a diplomat or politician's statement that law enforcement officers will refrain from policing their laws, I'm struggling to see a similar scenario where the police/HMRC in this country would bow to political direction to not enforce laws (standfast Norther Ireland). From what I can gather it's not as though the UK is taking any steps at all to comply with the ruling, there doesn't seem to have been any steps to make white diesel more available on the south or east coasts or elsewhere.

Hauwei cabinet leak ?????

 

[Seven Spades]

Fuelling from Tesco is only an option if you have really small tanks.

 

[Pye_End]

Fuelling from Tesco is only an option if you have really small tanks.

And as has been discussed before has the FAME problem with it.

Is Belgium the only EU nation which is enforcing the law? If so, why can they not be practical and pragmatic like the other nations?

The EU ruling may well have been made, but it will take time for wheels to turn, and even when decisions have been made there is still the problem of eliminating the dye from tanks.

 

[Blue Sunray]

Decriminalisation of cannabis, assisted suicides via Dignity to name but two, not critically but as an observation. I think the UK would be a better place if the separation of powers was strictly observed but it is not and so the police and CPS make up 'law' on the hoof. I suspect the same political meddling with the rule of law takes place in Belgium.

Err no. CPS is not the Police nor HMRC. The police are still reporting individuals as per the law, not on every occasion of course, but they are still so doing, in both of the situations that you mention.

 

[Poecheng]

Fuelling from Tesco is only an option if you have really small tanks.

Certainly here in the UK. I now fill with white as there doesn't seem to be much of price difference and we do not have large tanks.
However, in Ostend last year, there is no diesel near the harbour and garages are not allowed in the town/city centres, they must be on the outskirts. So you have to transport diesel in cans to the boat in Belgium.

OK in Netherlands round the corner so outbound we managed until we got to Flushing and, on the return journey filled up in Breskens.
However, the problem is not really where to fill up, it is that you cannot be in Belgium with red diesel.

 

[lw395]

Fuelling from Tesco is only an option if you have really small tanks.

It's not that hard for an actual sailing yacht with an auxillary motor.

 

[Fr J Hackett]

Fuelling from Tesco is only an option if you have really small tanks.

No it just takes several or more trips with 5 gallon cans, typically 8 or less from scratch ( 2 cans) and the wit to top up each time you visit the boat. Unless of course you have a stink pot

 

[Pye_End]

Certainly here in the UK. I now fill with white as there doesn't seem to be much of price difference and we do not have large tanks.
.

As a matter of interest, how has it affected the colour in the tank?

I tried this a couple of years ago and the tank colour got darker and darker after adding white. It looks as though the FAME had reacted with the copper pipes.

Much easier to avoid Belgium than cleaning the whole system out and permanently changing to non marine diesel.

 

[Blue Sunray]

It's not that hard for an actual sailing yacht with an auxillary motor.

That's a rather jack comment.

 

[Fr J Hackett]

And as has been discussed before has the FAME problem with it.

Is Belgium the only EU nation which is enforcing the law? If so, why can they not be practical and pragmatic like the other nations?

The EU ruling may well have been made, but it will take time for wheels to turn, and even when decisions have been made there is still the problem of eliminating the dye from tanks.

I put a new Yanmar in a boat at the same time renewed the fuel lines and filters cleaned the tank and ran the boat for 8 years without injector, pump or bug problems on supermarket white the tank was 45 gallons. In the previous 5 years the boat had a several bug issues despite cleaning the tank and using additives, I put it down to contaminated fuel from marinas.

 

[Fr J Hackett]

As a matter of interest, how has it affected the colour in the tank?

I tried this a couple of years ago and the tank colour got darker and darker after adding white. It looks as though the FAME had reacted with the copper pipes.

Much easier to avoid Belgium than cleaning the whole system out and permanently changing to non marine diesel.

That is probably true for most but there are a few diehards that live on Amstel or other such muck.

 

[Munz]

That is probably true for most but there are a few diehards that live on Amstel or other such muck.

Don't think (or at least I hope you won't) you'll find Amstel in Belgium, try further north......