Beginers Advice - Yachtmaster certification

[amcl]

Hi There,
I'm planning to buy an ocean going cruising yacht (sail) around 60ft next year and plan to sail the world. It's something of a dream I've always had.

I used to sail a lot as a kid but it's mostly gone now and I wanted to get answers from the experts:

Do I need a full Yachmaster qualification? It seems like a lot of work and investment, do I need it, will it bring my insurance down by as much as it costs?

Thanks very much

 

[blackbeard]

I'm finding it difficult to take this post seriously.
However, for the record:
No, you don't NEED a Yachtmaster qualification; though, you would do well to get as much knowledge and experience as possible, and only then decide what you would like to do and what sort of boat you might need. Some formal qualification might be a useful step on that route.
And there are cheaper and arguably better ways of sailing around the world than buying you own boat. (Do you have ANY idea of how much a 60' boat in seaworthy condition might cost? or how you might find a crew for it? or how big a boat you might actually need?)
One hears stories of people who set out to sail around the world, and soon after setting out, decide that they hate it ...
... above all else, enjoy your sailing - wherever, and in whatever boat, you might be ...

 

[vyv_cox]

Perhaps the majority of people who sail 60 ft yachts around the world employ a professional skipper. Boats this size need a lot of looking after and a great deal of skill to berth, anchor, sail and manage.

Like Blackbeard, I'm wondering whether this is a wind-up.

 

[prv]

Like Blackbeard, I'm wondering whether this is a wind-up.

If not a wind-up, a fantasy.

Pete

 

[nimbusgb]

Hi There,
I'm planning to buy an ocean going cruising yacht (sail) around 60ft next year and plan to sail the world. It's something of a dream I've always had.

I used to sail a lot as a kid but it's mostly gone now and I wanted to get answers from the experts:

Do I need a full Yachmaster qualification? It seems like a lot of work and investment, do I need it, will it bring my insurance down by as much as it costs?

Thanks very much

Yacht insurance is pretty cheap so yoo may not get the price off the premium. A Yachtmaster ticket may not even affect the size and thus the cost of the holes a relative beginner makes in a 60' boat!

 

[amcl]

Goodness,
I didn't realise this would be a hostile point.
To give a little bit of background:

I've spent some time on various boats of this class but usually they either belonged to friends who were skippering or were chartered with skipper and I got some RYA competent yachting (can't remember what it was called back then but by the looks of the RYA description it was the Competent Crew level) certificate in my youth but that was a long time ago in high school and I'd need some kind of refresher and also a lot of new skills, I'm certainly aware of this.

I recently sold a business and want to take a couple of years as a sabatical and hiring a skipper would be really OTT for this and I'd prefer to learn to take care of things myself however intense courses for the Yachtmaster can be anything up to 140 days which seems like a lot of time.

Thanks very much, keep it coming even if it's only to tell me i'm a fool

 

[vyv_cox]

The 140 days you quote refers to the 'standing start' courses. You actually don't need any formal training to take the Yachtmaster offshore course but the 140 days full time is probably a good guide to the experience needed.

The answer to your question is that you don't need any qualifications in UK to take a boat out. Authorities abroad will wish to see a licence, for which the ICC will suffice.

 

[AntarcticPilot]

Goodness,
I didn't realise this would be a hostile point.
To give a little bit of background:

I've spent some time on various boats of this class but usually they either belonged to friends who were skippering or were chartered with skipper and I got some RYA competent yachting (can't remember what it was called back then but by the looks of the RYA description it was the Competent Crew level) certificate in my youth but that was a long time ago in high school and I'd need some kind of refresher and also a lot of new skills, I'm certainly aware of this.

I recently sold a business and want to take a couple of years as a sabatical and hiring a skipper would be really OTT for this and I'd prefer to learn to take care of things myself however intense courses for the Yachtmaster can be anything up to 140 days which seems like a lot of time.

Thanks very much, keep it coming even if it's only to tell me i'm a fool

I don't think people are hostile - rather, unbelieving of the size of vessel you suggest. 60' is FAR larger than necessary; 40' would be ample - and much more achievable. 60' yachts are few and far between, are extremely expensive to buy - think 7 figures - and finally, require commercial skill levels in boat handling etc. in close quarters. A 60' yacht will be almost a one-off; a 40' yacht is readily available.

Remember, the volume of a vessel goes up as the cube of the dimensions. So, a 60' yacht isn't half as big again as a 40' yacht - it is 3.4 times as big, in volume, weight and so on. The sails are correspondingly larger, and so require more effort to handle them, and so on and so on.

You don't NEED any qualifications at all, but you would be well advised to gain some, either through formal RYA courses or through learning from others. And there is nothing like experience.

 

[chriscoreline]

a 60ft boat will need at least two experienced, compatent salors on bored. Also if your planning to cross any oceans you would be advised to take the RYA's ocean skipper qualification linkey

that said, the 60 footers i have had the privilage to visit are a real joy to be on, even when they arnt going anywhere.

 

[Tranona]

You seem to be at the bottom of a very steep learning curve! Most people who do what you plan to do have a lifetime of experience to draw on. Clearly if you don't have that and still want to have a go, then you need a crash course on many aspects of sailing and running a boat. There is masses of published material on the subject in the magazines, books and personal blogs. Once you get into it you will be overwhelmed with the richness of the material.

In practical terms you could take a Yachtmaster Offshore course which will teach you the "basics" at the level you need (but as already noted this is not compulsory). There are regular seminars run by some of the magazines aimed at those who want to sell up and sail. There are various different rallies where you can get experience of long distance sailing before taking the plunge on your own.

Don't take it too hard if you get negative reactions - its just that people get ideas about doing things where they have no idea what is involved. Going round the world in a 60 footer is a massive undertaking - but quite possible if you go about it the right way. There are a number of accounts of people doing just what you plan from a low base, but they have to learn a lot in a very short time.

best of luck.

 

[mireland]

1. There is no legal requirement to get any qualification at all. Anyone can buy a boat and cast off into the distance. It is the skipper's responibility to put to sea and the consequences are his or hers alone to bear.
2. As already stated some countries require an International Certificate of Competence. It is a very low level qualification and so no problem to acquire. It certainly does not mean much in terms of ability to skipper a yacht.
3. If you plan to sail single handed (which I guess you don't on a 60 foot boat) you will struggle to find anyone to insure you however well qualified you are.
4. If you are going with crew then you can get insurance and the insurers will want to know what experience you have but I imagine you can get insurnace anyway - at a price.
5. The real question seem to be about how competent you want to be before setting off. Fast track courses from beginner to yachtmaster may seem like long courses but many would say they are no substitute for years of experience built up skippering a variety of boats in a variety of situations. If you are considering such a course and many people do rate them, then look at it as a small percentage of the time you will spend sailing around the world and a good investment.
6. You have a dream which many may share and you should not let anyone put you off but do your homework and look at all the options. How about delaying for a while and building more experience? This is a serious project that requires careful preparation for anyone experienced let alone a novice.

 

[Talulah]

You could post on the Liveaboard Forum to see if anyone on there did it from almost scratch.

 

[ghostlymoron]

Hi There,
I'm planning to buy an ocean going cruising yacht (sail) around 60ft next year and plan to sail the world. It's something of a dream I've always had.

I used to sail a lot as a kid but it's mostly gone now and I wanted to get answers from the experts:

Do I need a full Yachmaster qualification? It seems like a lot of work and investment, do I need it, will it bring my insurance down by as much as it costs?

Thanks very much

I would start by doing a RYA competant crew course which is a week on board with an experienced skipper. That will give you a good idea of what yachting is all about and also an idea of the practicalities of running a boat. You will find that something much smaller than a 60 footer is a better bet for long distance cruising. BTW I think you would need at least skipper a 3 crew for a large tacht.

 

[laika]

And to answer the other question, yes a YM ticket can help you negotiate a no-claims discount when you insure your first boat (for some companies), though I'm not sure that it will "formally" reduce your premium.

If you have cash in the bank and 2 years off and plan on sailing round the world why on earth *wouldn't* you want to spend 4/5 months learning? If you think you'll love sailing you'll love it. If you find out you don't love it better to do it *before* you buy the boat. The cost of it (10 grand-ish?) would be nothing compared with the cost of a 60' boat.

It's the "60 foot" part that's getting a reaction here. There's a (questionable but lovable) tradition of crazy people having never sailed more than a dinghy buying a little boat and heading off round the world, but the norm is to do it in rickety 30' boats which can be fended off more easily. You can do an awful lot of damage to other people's pride and joys/homes in an 18m boat if you don't know what you're doing.

 

[NealB]

I think we're all interested in your thinking behind specifying 60 feet....do you need such a big
boat?

As has been mentioned, that size of boat could be intimidating in close quarters, and will certainly be very expensive to maintain and moor. It will also restrict the number of places you can visit, and how you get places.

Personally, if I were planning an extended trip, assuming it would be for two people, I'd go for something like a Moody 33 or Westerly 33.....boring, but comfortable enough and very capable.

Much smaller boats have crossed oceans (Tinkerbelle, Shrimpy, Willing Griffon, Jester....to name just four tiny examples). I'm not suggesting that you to go their sort of extreme, but am interested in why you think 60 feet is necessary for you.

 

[Babylon]

Goodness,
I didn't realise this would be a hostile point.
To give a little bit of background...

...Thanks very much, keep it coming even if it's only to tell me i'm a fool

amcl

As you'll have realised, there is not only an incredible amount of sailing experience on these fora, but also a tremendous willingness to share information. So - sometimes - when an unknown newcomer to the site asks a question such as yours without giving much advance information about themselves, its only human instinct to question whether the post is indeed a serious one.

My own view is that you would be wise to:
(a) at least get back on the water in the immediate future, and perhaps organise a yacht sailing refresher course with a reputable training establishment convenient to your location; they will also be able to advise you on the level of skill you'd need to add to your old (forgotten?) experience.
(b) consider putting together your own training by doing a series of individual courses as needed.

 

[Victoria Sponge]

We met a couple in Turkey who had been sailing for five years. They set off from Ireland. Their boat was a 32 footer. They said it was just the right size for them in all respects.

I cannot see the need for a boat of 60 feet, but that's just me perhaps.

 

[KenMcCulloch]

I remember Chay Blyth allegedly setting out as a competitor in the Golden Globe having no actual sailing experience whatsoever. He didn't finish but did get as far as Capetown. He subsequently sailed the 59' British Steel around the world single handed against the prevailing winds. So don't listen to the pessimists who say you can't do it. Yes, sure, a 60' boat is a bit of a handful for a novice, but then actually so is a 40' boat.

When I took my Yachtmaster evening classes 20 years ago my desk buddy was a guy who had built and sailed his own 60' schooner from New Zealand to the UK and wanted to take the class to fill in some gaps in his knowledge. Most people do it the other way round (take the class then go to sea) but you can choose. The learning curve would be steep but that's a poor reason not to have the adventure if you really want it.

 

[NealB]

I remember Chay Blyth allegedly setting out as a competitor in the Golden Globe having no actual sailing experience whatsoever. He didn't finish but did get as far as Capetown.... So don't listen to the pessimists who say you can't do it

A few thoughts :

- wasn't Chay ex-SAS, or paratrooper or something equally rufty tufty, and self-reliant (the op may, or may not be in that league of rufty-tuftiness)?

- hadn't he already rowed the Atlantic with John Ridgeway before he set off in the Golden Globe?

- Wasn't he in a Kingfisher 30?

- I don't think anyone's suggested that the op's idea can't be turned into reality....we're just interested in why 60 feet is required.

 

[nickd]

I do not know your reasons for 60 foot, I am hoping to do similar to you in about 5 years and reckon that a 45" will be a good compromise for me and the wife with occasional guests. In the mean time I am getting in as much experience as possible on my own smaller boat.

If I was going to "fast track" as you are proposing to do, I would consider doing something like the Ocean Graduate course at UKSA which in 6 months takes you to Ocean Yachtmaster, with a stack of other things like fire fighting, boat repair and maintenance, first aid, vhf, radar etc in a variety of boats. My daughter has just completed this course and whilst there is no substitute for experience (mind you she has completed 8000 miles at least half of which was in very strong winds) it would certainly give you a very thorough grounding and all in someone else's boat (reassuring when you are negotiating a new marina in the dark in nasty conditions!). At £15k its a fraction of what your new boat is likely to cost.

Any way just an idea, good luck I am envious.