Lakesailor
Well-Known Member
By the way. Is that Michael Flattley bloke still there?
Been to See Riverdance but Not allowed Near
- Thread starter savageseadog
- Start date
Rabbie
Well-Known Member
I laughed out loud at Rory Bremner on the Andrew Marr programme this morning when he mentioned that Liverpool is now the European City of Culture. Therefore, 'If you find your car wheels missing, it will probably be blocked up on copies of the Collected Works of Shakespeare'. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Woodentop
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
As the outlaws overlook the Riverdance I thought I'd have a look. Took a picture before I was told to clear off by the Coastguard. When I said I had every right to walk along the beach he said that the Secretary of State for ..................... had imposed a 500M exclusion zone, whether that means by land or sea or both I don't know. Anyway I took a piccie it was a bit dark and a bit misty so not too good.
[/ QUOTE ]
When SOSREP says piss off that means "PISS OFF". He has the power impose an exclusion zone which does not allow you to walk on the beach. There is a prison sentence up for grabs if you want to press your "right to walk on the beach".
As the outlaws overlook the Riverdance I thought I'd have a look. Took a picture before I was told to clear off by the Coastguard. When I said I had every right to walk along the beach he said that the Secretary of State for ..................... had imposed a 500M exclusion zone, whether that means by land or sea or both I don't know. Anyway I took a piccie it was a bit dark and a bit misty so not too good.
[/ QUOTE ]
When SOSREP says piss off that means "PISS OFF". He has the power impose an exclusion zone which does not allow you to walk on the beach. There is a prison sentence up for grabs if you want to press your "right to walk on the beach".
bilbobaggins
N/A
Nothing on the MCA 'Incidents' web-page about the imposition of an Exclusion Zone Here
[ QUOTE ]
From the MCA's pages : This SOSREP should be:
* on site, able to act without delay and
* free to act without recourse to higher authority.
The Review is clear…….
“SOSREP must be a considerable and, preferably, charismatic figure”.
And it is important point to note – SOSREP’s duties are in respect of salvage only.
[/ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Coastguards are advising members of the public who plan to visit the site of the grounding this weekend to view it from a safe distance on the promenade and not to venture down onto the beach
[/ QUOTE ]
This "charismatic figure" is likely occupied planning the removal of the vessel with other professionals. I can't find any reference to the imposition of restrictions on walking along the beach, so until the emergence of further authoritative notice, it's just so much 'flannel'....
...and 'Piss off' does not appear in the ITU and OfCom-approved list of 'Prowords' to be used within the GMDSS/DSC VHF radio service - by Coastguard personnel or by forumeers!
/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
[ QUOTE ]
From the MCA's pages : This SOSREP should be:
* on site, able to act without delay and
* free to act without recourse to higher authority.
The Review is clear…….
“SOSREP must be a considerable and, preferably, charismatic figure”.
And it is important point to note – SOSREP’s duties are in respect of salvage only.
[/ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Coastguards are advising members of the public who plan to visit the site of the grounding this weekend to view it from a safe distance on the promenade and not to venture down onto the beach
[/ QUOTE ]
This "charismatic figure" is likely occupied planning the removal of the vessel with other professionals. I can't find any reference to the imposition of restrictions on walking along the beach, so until the emergence of further authoritative notice, it's just so much 'flannel'....
...and 'Piss off' does not appear in the ITU and OfCom-approved list of 'Prowords' to be used within the GMDSS/DSC VHF radio service - by Coastguard personnel or by forumeers!
/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
Woodentop
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Nothing on the MCA 'Incidents' web-page about the imposition of an Exclusion Zone
[/ QUOTE ]
Probably correct.
But I have just spoken to MRCC Liverpool -
They are broadcasting to ships that SOSREP under his powers under section 100A of the Merchant Shipping Act etc.. a 400 metre exclusion zone...
So although you did not find it on the web site, it is being announced twice a day.....
As I said, Hugh Shaw has told you to stay away from the vessel. What more do you need ?
Snipers ?
Nothing on the MCA 'Incidents' web-page about the imposition of an Exclusion Zone
[/ QUOTE ]
Probably correct.
But I have just spoken to MRCC Liverpool -
They are broadcasting to ships that SOSREP under his powers under section 100A of the Merchant Shipping Act etc.. a 400 metre exclusion zone...
So although you did not find it on the web site, it is being announced twice a day.....
As I said, Hugh Shaw has told you to stay away from the vessel. What more do you need ?
Snipers ?
Beadle
Well-Known Member
No, of course chocy bikkies have little value - so they must be guarded to the full extent of the law, and beyond it if any coastguard, permanent or volunteer, lays a finger on a member of the public.
But where were they all when Napoli was being systematically looted. Don't recall any coastguards then accosting members of the public taking BMW bikes and other such "worthless" items.
One wonders why there was so much less dedication to duty there.
But where were they all when Napoli was being systematically looted. Don't recall any coastguards then accosting members of the public taking BMW bikes and other such "worthless" items.
One wonders why there was so much less dedication to duty there.
Woodentop
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Anyone know if the order is legal and can prevent access?
[/ QUOTE ]
Yup, it is legal.
The Secretary Of States Representative (SOSREP), using his powers under Section 100A of the Merchant Shipping Act says "PISS OFF".
To be more exact he has declared a Total Exclusion Zone.
You may wander in there thinking you have "rights" but be afraid, be very afraid.
(Are you not proud you elected this government).
Anyone know if the order is legal and can prevent access?
[/ QUOTE ]
Yup, it is legal.
The Secretary Of States Representative (SOSREP), using his powers under Section 100A of the Merchant Shipping Act says "PISS OFF".
To be more exact he has declared a Total Exclusion Zone.
You may wander in there thinking you have "rights" but be afraid, be very afraid.
(Are you not proud you elected this government).
damo
Well-Known Member
"(Are you not proud you elected this government). "
WTF has that to do with anything? Did you exercise your right to make representations about the Act before it was passed?
Merchant Shipping Act 1995 - "An Act to consolidate the Merchant Shipping Acts 1894 to 1994 and other enactments relating to merchant shipping"
Or are you happy to let your fellow citizens loot what they like? At least TPTB have got their act together this time
WTF has that to do with anything? Did you exercise your right to make representations about the Act before it was passed?
Merchant Shipping Act 1995 - "An Act to consolidate the Merchant Shipping Acts 1894 to 1994 and other enactments relating to merchant shipping"
Or are you happy to let your fellow citizens loot what they like? At least TPTB have got their act together this time
Woodentop
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
But where were they all when Napoli was being systematically looted. Don't recall any coastguards then accosting members of the public taking BMW bikes and other such "worthless" items.
One wonders why there was so much less dedication to duty there.
[/ QUOTE ]
When the containers from Napoli came ashore there was a lot of confusion. The Police did not know their powers, The Receiver of Wreck had not grasped her situation in a major wreck, the Coastguard were not fully briefed - it was a mistake born of ignorance, the powers were there but no one knew they had them until too late.
Now they know, and now they are moving in for the kill on any scouser who nicks a single chocolate biscuit.
Which is a good thing really.
But where were they all when Napoli was being systematically looted. Don't recall any coastguards then accosting members of the public taking BMW bikes and other such "worthless" items.
One wonders why there was so much less dedication to duty there.
[/ QUOTE ]
When the containers from Napoli came ashore there was a lot of confusion. The Police did not know their powers, The Receiver of Wreck had not grasped her situation in a major wreck, the Coastguard were not fully briefed - it was a mistake born of ignorance, the powers were there but no one knew they had them until too late.
Now they know, and now they are moving in for the kill on any scouser who nicks a single chocolate biscuit.
Which is a good thing really.
Woodentop
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
"(Are you not proud you elected this government). "
WTF has that to do with anything? Did you exercise your right to make representations about the Act before it was passed?
Merchant Shipping Act 1995 - "An Act to consolidate the Merchant Shipping Acts 1894 to 1994 and other enactments relating to merchant shipping"
Or are you happy to let your fellow citizens loot what they like? At least TPTB have got their act together this time
[/ QUOTE ]
What is TBTB ?
"(Are you not proud you elected this government). "
WTF has that to do with anything? Did you exercise your right to make representations about the Act before it was passed?
Merchant Shipping Act 1995 - "An Act to consolidate the Merchant Shipping Acts 1894 to 1994 and other enactments relating to merchant shipping"
Or are you happy to let your fellow citizens loot what they like? At least TPTB have got their act together this time
[/ QUOTE ]
What is TBTB ?
damo
Well-Known Member
Oops, I was too quick with the rant, sorry. "TPTB" The Powers That Be /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Seven Spades
Well-Known Member
Here's the text...
“Temporary exclusion zones
100APower to establish temporary exclusion zones
(1)Subsection (2) below applies where a ship, structure or other thing—
(a)is in United Kingdom waters or a part of the sea specified by virtue of section 129(2)(b); and
(b)is wrecked, damaged or in distress;and in this section and section 100B “the relevant casualty” means that ship, structure or other thing.
(2)If it appears to the Secretary of State—
(a)that significant harm will or may occur as a direct or indirect result of the relevant casualty being wrecked, damaged or in distress, and
(b)that if access to an area around the relevant casualty were restricted in accordance with section 100B, significant harm, or the risk of such harm, would be prevented or reduced,he may by direction identify an area to which access is so restricted (“a temporary exclusion zone”).
(3)In this section “significant harm” means—
(a)significant pollution in the United Kingdom, in United Kingdom waters or in a part of the sea specified by virtue of section 129(2)(b); or
(b)significant damage to persons or property.
(4)A temporary exclusion zone may not include any area which is neither within United Kingdom waters nor within a part of the sea specified by virtue of section 129(2)(b).
(5)If it appears to the Secretary of State at any time after a temporary exclusion zone is established that the zone is larger than is needed for the purpose of preventing or reducing significant harm, or the risk of such harm, he shall by direction vary the direction establishing the zone accordingly.
(6)Subject to subsections (4) and (5) above, a temporary exclusion zone may be identified by reference to the position of the relevant casualty from time to time.
(7)If it appears to the Secretary of State at any time after a temporary exclusion zone is established that the zone is not needed for the purpose of preventing or reducing significant harm, or the risk of such harm, he shall by direction revoke the direction establishing the zone.
(8)Where the Secretary of State gives a direction under this section, he shall—
(a)as soon as practicable, publish it in such manner as he considers appropriate for bringing it to the attention of persons likely to be affected by it; and
(b)within the period of 24 hours from the giving of the direction, send a copy of it to the International Maritime Organization.
(9)Subsection (2) above does not apply where an order under section 2 of the [1973 c. 33.] Protection of Wrecks Act 1973 has effect in relation to the relevant casualty.
Seems to me, for what it is worth, that 100A only covers the sea not the land (S100A (4)).
I don't aprove of pickings, but simply taking a photo does no harm, they need to lighten up a bit.
“Temporary exclusion zones
100APower to establish temporary exclusion zones
(1)Subsection (2) below applies where a ship, structure or other thing—
(a)is in United Kingdom waters or a part of the sea specified by virtue of section 129(2)(b); and
(b)is wrecked, damaged or in distress;and in this section and section 100B “the relevant casualty” means that ship, structure or other thing.
(2)If it appears to the Secretary of State—
(a)that significant harm will or may occur as a direct or indirect result of the relevant casualty being wrecked, damaged or in distress, and
(b)that if access to an area around the relevant casualty were restricted in accordance with section 100B, significant harm, or the risk of such harm, would be prevented or reduced,he may by direction identify an area to which access is so restricted (“a temporary exclusion zone”).
(3)In this section “significant harm” means—
(a)significant pollution in the United Kingdom, in United Kingdom waters or in a part of the sea specified by virtue of section 129(2)(b); or
(b)significant damage to persons or property.
(4)A temporary exclusion zone may not include any area which is neither within United Kingdom waters nor within a part of the sea specified by virtue of section 129(2)(b).
(5)If it appears to the Secretary of State at any time after a temporary exclusion zone is established that the zone is larger than is needed for the purpose of preventing or reducing significant harm, or the risk of such harm, he shall by direction vary the direction establishing the zone accordingly.
(6)Subject to subsections (4) and (5) above, a temporary exclusion zone may be identified by reference to the position of the relevant casualty from time to time.
(7)If it appears to the Secretary of State at any time after a temporary exclusion zone is established that the zone is not needed for the purpose of preventing or reducing significant harm, or the risk of such harm, he shall by direction revoke the direction establishing the zone.
(8)Where the Secretary of State gives a direction under this section, he shall—
(a)as soon as practicable, publish it in such manner as he considers appropriate for bringing it to the attention of persons likely to be affected by it; and
(b)within the period of 24 hours from the giving of the direction, send a copy of it to the International Maritime Organization.
(9)Subsection (2) above does not apply where an order under section 2 of the [1973 c. 33.] Protection of Wrecks Act 1973 has effect in relation to the relevant casualty.
Seems to me, for what it is worth, that 100A only covers the sea not the land (S100A (4)).
I don't aprove of pickings, but simply taking a photo does no harm, they need to lighten up a bit.
damo
Well-Known Member
section 129(2)(b) refers to the Continental Shelf Act 1964, regarding areas of jurisdiction, from which...
"(7) Her Majesty may from time to time by Order in Council
designate any area as an area within which the rights mentioned in subsection (1) of this section are exercisable, and any area so designated is in this Act referred to as a designated area."
Someone else can delve deeper if they like, but presumably it can be anywhere below HWL
"(7) Her Majesty may from time to time by Order in Council
designate any area as an area within which the rights mentioned in subsection (1) of this section are exercisable, and any area so designated is in this Act referred to as a designated area."
Someone else can delve deeper if they like, but presumably it can be anywhere below HWL
Woodentop
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Or are you happy to let your fellow citizens loot what they like? At least TPTB have got their act together this time
[/ QUOTE ]
Happy to loot ? No.
The law on cargo and goods lost (accidentally or deliberately) at sea (flotsam, jetsam and langan) is complex.
Where the national police failed was because they were not correctly advised by the the Receiver of Wreck and not granted powers to act.
A combination of PC attitudes, forgetfulness of archaic law, and diminution of the role over time meant that when the Receiver of Wreck was called upon to act on a significant wreck everything had been forgotten.
The law was there but the laws had been forgotten. They have now been remembered pretty quickly. (Cf timber on Worthing beach).
These laws are now being enforced.
Or are you happy to let your fellow citizens loot what they like? At least TPTB have got their act together this time
[/ QUOTE ]
Happy to loot ? No.
The law on cargo and goods lost (accidentally or deliberately) at sea (flotsam, jetsam and langan) is complex.
Where the national police failed was because they were not correctly advised by the the Receiver of Wreck and not granted powers to act.
A combination of PC attitudes, forgetfulness of archaic law, and diminution of the role over time meant that when the Receiver of Wreck was called upon to act on a significant wreck everything had been forgotten.
The law was there but the laws had been forgotten. They have now been remembered pretty quickly. (Cf timber on Worthing beach).
These laws are now being enforced.
Woodentop
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
are the C.G now acting Plod then
[/ QUOTE ]
Despite what they might tell you - Do Plod have any authority below the High Water Mark ?
They are Plod on land,not at sea.
are the C.G now acting Plod then
[/ QUOTE ]
Despite what they might tell you - Do Plod have any authority below the High Water Mark ?
They are Plod on land,not at sea.
hlb
RIP
Oi, we are not scouser ear, but theres nothing to nick. Well maybe some buiscuits, but I did not see them.
The boat is vertually on the beach, only a few waves under it. I'm sure you could walk to it, anywhere up to half tide.
I see this as a land operation, remove the cargo to land. Then maybe remove the ship. We will see whT UNFOLDS.
The boat is vertually on the beach, only a few waves under it. I'm sure you could walk to it, anywhere up to half tide.
I see this as a land operation, remove the cargo to land. Then maybe remove the ship. We will see whT UNFOLDS.
ShipsWoofy
Well-Known Member
In Devon people were robbing nappies and bikes from locked containers on the beach, more recently collecting machined wood, if the new containers come ashore on the SW coast they will be stripped bare before you can get to the beach in your little peaked cap. These events were historic, romantic even plucky.
A ship beaches in the North West, people from this forum from Lancashire, have tried to approach it for whatever reasons and told to piss off. The news teams were interviewing locals and tourists who had come to see the ship, one guy with a strong southern accent even said he had come to beach-comb anything that had washed up.
Not one person has been near the beach.
Yet somehow people from Liverpool are still blamed for something, I did not hear anyone suggesting that the brave scouse lifeboat men, coast guards or hello crews should get medals for pulling everyone off alive.
You have the ignorance to accuse people from a city 30 miles away who have had nothing to do with this, a city steeped with maritime men, men who died to allow you to spout this crap on a forum like this, men who you could not hold a candle to.
If you feel this strongly about the people from this area, I will take you to a city centre pub and you can share your feelings with the patrons.
No, thought not, you are just an ignorant, gobby little southerner who can't say a good word about anyone, bravely hiding behind your keyboard.
[ QUOTE ]
Who I am is unimportant. One prefers a discrete anonymity.
[/ QUOTE ] .
When the first person from the city of Liverpool is caught looting on the beach at Blackpool you can all *, but until then, keep your ridiculous small minded prejudices to yourselves.
Let us remember, it is the south coast that has the cosy romance of wrecking and piracy.
p.s. learn some geography, the cities of Lancaster, Preston are much closer, Manchester is only up the road. Does your petty ignorant hatred only sit comfortably when you have based all you know on television programs like bread and boys from the blackstuff.
You are most probably proud of your little troll, well congratulations, you caught me, only you may not be too happy when you can't shake me off your hook!
A ship beaches in the North West, people from this forum from Lancashire, have tried to approach it for whatever reasons and told to piss off. The news teams were interviewing locals and tourists who had come to see the ship, one guy with a strong southern accent even said he had come to beach-comb anything that had washed up.
Not one person has been near the beach.
Yet somehow people from Liverpool are still blamed for something, I did not hear anyone suggesting that the brave scouse lifeboat men, coast guards or hello crews should get medals for pulling everyone off alive.
You have the ignorance to accuse people from a city 30 miles away who have had nothing to do with this, a city steeped with maritime men, men who died to allow you to spout this crap on a forum like this, men who you could not hold a candle to.
If you feel this strongly about the people from this area, I will take you to a city centre pub and you can share your feelings with the patrons.
No, thought not, you are just an ignorant, gobby little southerner who can't say a good word about anyone, bravely hiding behind your keyboard.
[ QUOTE ]
Who I am is unimportant. One prefers a discrete anonymity.
[/ QUOTE ] .
When the first person from the city of Liverpool is caught looting on the beach at Blackpool you can all *, but until then, keep your ridiculous small minded prejudices to yourselves.
Let us remember, it is the south coast that has the cosy romance of wrecking and piracy.
p.s. learn some geography, the cities of Lancaster, Preston are much closer, Manchester is only up the road. Does your petty ignorant hatred only sit comfortably when you have based all you know on television programs like bread and boys from the blackstuff.
You are most probably proud of your little troll, well congratulations, you caught me, only you may not be too happy when you can't shake me off your hook!
hlb
RIP
Thank you Dogwatch, I have adjusted my signettour.
By the way. I live near Preston.
By the way. I live near Preston.
ShipsWoofy
Well-Known Member
yes maybe so,
she started it, I make no secret that I will not stand back and allow this constant Liverpool bashing on here.
In what way does it affect you? The nastiness dished out to people from Liverpool is tantamount to racism, but then, what is wrong with being racist anyway?
she started it, I make no secret that I will not stand back and allow this constant Liverpool bashing on here.
In what way does it affect you? The nastiness dished out to people from Liverpool is tantamount to racism, but then, what is wrong with being racist anyway?
hlb
RIP
Nothing wrong with being racist.I just think your being a twat.