Becoming a yacht broker! What do I need?

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alorwin

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Hi all!

I would just like to pick your brains and see if anyone knows what qualifications I would need to become a yacht broker? /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

I have read similar threads with all the obvious negative points and uselessness of brokers pointed out from peoples' experience, but was wondering what you DO actually need, paperwork wise and what sort of governing bodies there are?

Would appreciate any advice, as always. Hope you all had a lovely Christmas and have a great new year! Merry Christmas to everyone in Estepona!

thanks!
 
yep, the morals and ethics of an alley-cat if you want to make any kind of money out of it...
Otherwise the Yacht Brokers, Designers, and Surveyors' Association (YBDSA) which incorporates the ABYA and the YDSA, run excellent weekend courses that should give you a really good head start. Check them out at www.ybdsa.co.uk or phone them in the UK:+44 1420 473862
 
As a broker I regularly read the posts on these and other website, in my own time I hasten to add. It helps to get a feel for the market and gives a good indication to market forces especially pre and post boat shows.

However I am continually dismayed, annoyed and frustrated to read of peoples attitudes towards their brokers. How many of the people that write in to this anonymous website complaining have actually spoken to their brokers and asked for their advice I wander? Our blame culture seems to be spreading into all aspects of life to the point now that it is the brokers fault when a boat fails to sell.

As a result I'd like to put pen to paper for a minute to put the brokers view.

As a Broker we contracted by the owners to act on their behalf to sell their vessels, we do not force them to list their boats and neither do we charge a fee until such time as a price has been agreed. Our fees may be considered high and as I look around I see numerous "online brokerages" offering lower fees and Im also aware that owners may wish to sell privately. More power to you and good luck.

I am often asked what we do for to earn our commission? Im sure many of the contributors to this site believe we all sit around reading boaty mags and drinking tea. Quite the opposite, a broker is responsible for all aspects of the sale, we pay for magazine and website advertising, we often tirelessly chase paperwork that owners have either lost misplaced or claim never to have received. A large proportion of my time is spent assisting owners with the complexities of title paperwork especially regarding the VAT. We also take care of the legal issues such as sales agreements, arranging sea trials and surveys, we also ensure that for the purchaser all title paperwork is handed over and make it clear to them if there is any missing title paperwork before the point of survey and sea trial. In most cases brokers operate seven days a week and are there when the owner cant be.

Like any industry there are good and bad operators as indeed there are good and bad customers. But here are a few simple tips

Owners - Ask your local marina if they can recommend a broker, they will often have several operating from their yard / marina. If you want to sell your boat, listen to the advice of the Broker, if they think your boat needs cleaning, clean it, if they think the price is too high drop it. I know your 1976 is absolutely immaculate and has had one owner from new but its still not going to fetch £16,000. Put yourself in the buyers shoes, they may be looking at a number of boats in a certain size and price range and experience shows its the clean tidy boats that sell first and sell for the higher price.

Purchasers - when ever possible let the broker know you are intending to visit, we have a lot of boats on our books and we unfortunately cant be an expert on every model and every marque. If you have specific questions you want answering, ask the broker to find out before you travel, we dont want you to waste your time any more than you do.

Finally its worth remembering that if we dont sell your boat we dont earn our fee, its in our best interest to find a buyer, and if your broker isn't working to find a buyer let them know or find another broker.
 
I do beg your pardon if I appear to be "tarring with the same brush". I only had experience of dealing with one broker and they were abysmal.

From the tone of your reply I assume that you would NOT consider the following "normal practice" ?

Giving potential buyers the keys to several yachts after asking them to sign a visitors book ( no ID requested at any point - I could have been anyone ).

Sitting in a nice warm office while said potential buyers wander around the boatyard clambering over the yachts. No attempt to sell the boat or be available for any questions.

Failing to advise potential buyers of the true state of the boat's paperwork ( missing original invoice - expired SSR ) until after the deposit had been accepted.

Failing to produce a correct inventory list ( even describing a wheel steered boat as having a tiller ).

Failing to read e-mails on at least a daily basis.

Ditto telephone messages.

Failing to arrange for work to be carried out as requested then trying to charge for the extra week on hard-standing.

Failing to check that work had been carried out to an acceptable standard ( i.e. steering cable hadn't been replaced incorrectly by resident gorilla causing boat to go to port when wheel turned to starb'd ).

And before you ask , yes they were YBDSA registered !

As I said at the beginning. You obviously appear to have a far more professional attitude than the one I met but I am sad to say that I have heard similar stories from many other sources and you therefore appear to be in a minority. When I come to sell my boat I will undoubtably try to do so independently first before resorting to a broker.
 
We spent nearly six months in 2004 looking for a boat to liveaboard. On the whole we were well-served by brokers, both in the UK and overseas, and I think the owners of the boats were well represented. I don't recognise the general tone of this thread as being representative of the service we received and we must have viewed 40 boats, and asked for details of many times that. When we finally came to an agreement to buy our present boat it was as a result of the broker pulling the deal together despite the parties being almost oceans apart on price.
 
I'd just like to point out that my Much Better Half (aka HWMBO) worked for five years as a yacht broker before quitting in disgust, so mine is by no means an uninformed opinion...
 
I've never quite understood why estate agents typically charge 1.5% and still seem to make a living and yet yacht brokers typically charge between 8 and 10%. Could this have something to do with the low opinion of your profession?

Bill
 
Coldfusion, it doesnt take a lot of analysis to see that an Estate Agent who is charging abt 1.5 -2% of £180k and selling a reasonable number of properties, is probably comparable in financial terms to a yacht broker with a smaller turn over in boats, and a much smaller average price per boat, is going to need to set his fees at well above the 2% level.
 
ibbo,

I can only agree with the above comments... you seem to have a far healthier attitude towards your customers, both sellers and buyers than my experience of brokers has offered so far..... I basically completed my sale myself.... ultimately contacting the seller direct.... he was not impressed at the 8% he paid for the service he recieved... I never once stepped foot on the boat I bought at the same time as the broker.... and had to threaten to pull out to get basic stuff done properly like an inventory.....

Sorry state of affairs as far as I am concerned...

Would definitely agree about not tarring all with the same brush.... but you don't fit the stereotype I have seen.....
 
Ibbo, I expect that the vast majority of those who post on this subject do so as a result of their own experiences. Here's mine:

After paying a six figure sum in cash, in full, I was given a MCA Bill of Sale signed by the previous owner. Three hours later I was phoned by the broker to be told , erm..... there were TWO outstanding mortgages on the boat. This had been revealed when the broker had contacted Part One Registry. Why did he not contact the Registry upon receipt of my deposit?

There were other irregularities which the Registry were unhappy with and were not prepared to enter my details as the owner.

The broker insisted that all was ok as I had a Bill of Sale. I protested that this was fraudulent and, as well as negating my insurance and leaving me in breach of contract with the Marina, the boat could be re-possessed by either of the mortgage institutions.

There were also several expensive, portable items missing from the inventory. These had been removed by a previous 'skipper' as a lever to recoup unpaid salary from the owner.

The problem with the Registry took ME four months to sort out. The broker maintained his position that the Bill of Sale proved ownership and title - utter nonsense.

I could go on forever about many other irritations with this broker but will resist the temptation to rant any more. I think it is important to remember that sellers can choose their broker - buyers cannot.
 
What surprises me is that you would proceed with the purchase of a yacht worth a six figure sum relying only on the vendor's agent to protect your interests, unless you had satisfied yourself that the agent was a fit person. Title to a boat is a specialist field and even with a car, you check for outstanding hp, etc.

Should we, as purchasers, expect the agent to protect our interests unless we pay him and retain him ourselves? You wouldn't expect an estate agent to get involved for either party so why let the yacht broker?
 
Lemain,

I do not expect the broker to protect my interests to the detriment of his client. However, I do expect the broker to acknowledge the law which was, in my case, that I had been issued with a fraudulently signed document.

This could all have been avoided by the broker acting in a timely manner to complete matter of transfer of ownership. As I am contributing (albeit indirectly) to the broker's commission I expect a degree of recognition.

BTW, if you look at the YBDSA website under 'buying and selling' you will see that they do not recommend buying privately for this very reason of proof of ownership. I therefore infer that part of the broker's purpose is to ensure a legal and satisfactory transfer which is in the interest of all parties.

When I consulted the YBDSA at the time they advised me that I was within my rights to sue.
 
This could all have been avoided by you having the register checked yourself. It is a public document and one of the reasons that is so is so that you can - anyone that purchases a vessel of any size should check to see if it is on the register and if so if there are any encumbrances against it.

What you have done is similar to buying a house and taking the seller's word for it that he holds title to the land.

John
 
Yes, these things are always clearer with 20/20 hindsight and one of the positive things to come from this thread, for me, is that I have now looked at the YBDSA website and seen that there appear to be no formal qualifications whatsoever required for membership of that organisation.

Surely they ought to have some exams to test individuals' knowledge of the legal aspects of transferring title? It is rather less complicated than Day Skipper, after all! The fact that they don't suggests, to me, that the YBDSA is more about recruiting members for its own benefit rather than being a bona fide industry association.

It would be nice if someone from the YBDSA could be persuaded to jump into this thread. Maybe the broker who contributed earlier (sorry, cannot see your name as I type this) could try to make that happen?
 
[ QUOTE ]
This could all have been avoided by you having the register checked yourself. It is a public document and one of the reasons that is so is so that you can - anyone that purchases a vessel of any size should check to see if it is on the register and if so if there are any encumbrances against it.

What you have done is similar to buying a house and taking the seller's word for it that he holds title to the land.

John

[/ QUOTE ]

What he did was to believe the ususal speel used to justify their commission, ie that they make sure all the paperwork is in order.
 
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