BBC2 9pm tonight

Re:Firstly

Great explorers don't make TV programmes, some of them, though not the expeditions you mention up to now, get to be in them. TV programmes are made by blokes at work. They have a lot of data on what people will watch. They don't do anything, well not twice they don't, that doesn't make a profit unless it's meeting they're "Public Service Remit". Sailings not on that list.

When you're at work do you keep battering away at things that don't work out. Do you take the high spend/small return option Do you throw good money at things that have been tried time after time, by skilled and creative people, and turned out less than excellent.

Thats the problem. UK TV is mostly excellent. You might not like the subject matter or the style but it's well made and clearly quality. Even minority appeal programmes can't be chucked together on the cheap. Then. every blue moon, along comes a sailing programme and it looks like a home movie about tedium.

The UK TV industry is full of creative people, pushing new ideas and revamping and improving old formats. Any gaps are filled with American material. The TV industry, even with all of the digi channels is not short of ideas. It's short of air time. It's short of things that appeal to advertisers and, perhaps to it's short of risk takers. If you address the latter point and find someone who will take a risk on a sailing programme, even though many other, simpler subjects are clamouring for his time, it will largely be ignored and he won't be happy with the finished problem.

Italian TV is the perfect place for sailing programmes. Along with the stripping housewives and all the absolutely universal crap that it calls programmes.

IPC mags are on the shelves because the purveyors of some very high ticket price, specialist sailing items advertise with them and cover the production cost leaving a profit. These magazines are snipers to TV's atom bomb. You haven't got to convince Mr. Raytheon that he needs to advertise to sailors. Convincing Mr Marks or Mr Spencer to do that is a bit more difficult. He can reach you anyway during the footie.

The only way you'll get quality sailing programmes is if the sailing organizations of Europe and US band together, build up their own sat channel, employ great film makers who develop new techniques and produce such a plausable prospectus that advertisers will fund the thing. Then some of their programmes will, if they're good enough, get show on mainstream TV.



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Re:Firstly

I can see you have a strong opinion on this but can I ask why its so negative? You have explained cost, viewing figures etc but do you really believe that a good programme would be impossible to make and get aired?...

<hr width=100% size=1>Its 11.59am - lets open the beers...
 
Re:Has up to now

I'm negative because of what I've seen so far. The TV, the video's are terrible things to watch. The last sailing thing I saw that was interesting was about Capehorn and it was in black & white.

Talking to people who make programmes makes me more negative. Sailing breaks their hearts. Guys have spent months making films, convinced they've cracked it, only to find that it won't stand up. Great shots and sparky dialogue look dull on the flat screen.

I don't see anyone here being all that constructive. Wanting isn't enough. So the fields wide open. If anyone knows how to produce or direct an interesting TV programme on sailing nows the time to share. If you come up with a really top idea I'll try to get it to a producer through the back door.

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Re:Firstly

Firstly it has to be said that Alan Priddy was on the Discovery Channel and whats on the water with his RTW voyage but you were probably watching the football /forums/images/icons/smile.gif

I dont agree with you but each to their own I think that there will be in the next few years something for boating to keep us going however, we musr all do our part in getting it there by expressin our views saying that we want it.

<hr width=100% size=1>Dom

<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.soltron.co.uk>the website</A>
MMS - Discount Chandlery
 
Re:Firstly

I agree with StellaG and the rest who’d like more sailing – esp. ocean racing – on tv. A series on the Mini Transat – low-tech and alone – half an hour a day tracking positions and one/two in-depth live pieces on a select few boats. The drama/crisis/fear? Surely that’d sell?

But then again maybe not. One of the problems in producing “creative” products like tv programmes, films, books is the element of risk – if I do this and spend my money or the sponsors money will someone buy it, watch it? Make a mistake then money is lost and your reputation is damaged. This makes producers, publishers etc very, very risk-averse, especially, but not only, when production cost are high (that’s why commercial sponsors are important in programme making). It’s hard to create a new audience, so, in film as well as tv, the same themes are reproduced over and over again. Soaps (reality or otherwise), action men (preferable carrying guns), football, programmes about people suffering (anger/neighbours/ill-heath/relationships or whatever) and “aspiring” tv – anything about big cars/boats/houses (especially somewhere “foreign” and/or something you'd never be able to afford). Generally we’re risk-averse too (or is it lazy) – intellectually as well as physically, and so, in the end, given that you can't have everything maybe we get what we really want.

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Re:Ha! you think I\'m negative.

Just had a phone call from a guy who edits stuff for the Beeb.

I told him that the world was ready for more sailing on TV. He said "Why? are they bringing back the intermission". His questions about Atlantic Challenge were. Who's Cathy Brown? Did she get her kit off? Who were they racing? What went wrong? Did she hit anyone? How did they get shots from off the boat? Was the soundtrack any good? He was really interested in only one thing. The pink boxing gloves.

So maybe we're in with a chance if we can arrange close racing by scantily clad, accident prone, mud wrestling celebrities followed by helicopters. All to a U2 soundtrack.

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Re:Has up to now

That's a good point P. The athleticism and power of rock climbing is visually appealing live, but can hardly ever be carried over to the flat screen. Same with skiing - extreme skiing (very steep and exposed) is awesome for real but never looks good on film. Someone mentioned above, Stellagirl I think, that the wind/sea state never carries onto the screen. That's true, for some things you have to be there - and maybe that's not a bad thing, that TV has its limits.

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Re:Ha! you think I\'m negative.

Probably the same sort of one track person that subscribes to Zoo, Nuts, Playboy and reads the Sun every day sat in his little office fantasising about those things he reads about.

Does he sail or have a clue about boating? Guess not. If he does he doesnt have much enthusiasm for the sport or hobby. As said before more like city type who talks about it in a bar rahter than goes out and does something about it

As for people taking a chance with the opportunity to lose money look at Richard Branson. They guy has earnt and lost more money than we can dream about. Virgin Atlantic as a huge risk so much so he lost a life long friend and business partner over it but he still took the risk. Even when the first fliht took off and seagulls got in the engine and blew it up he still went on and percevered through the BA scandal. Its people like that who take a risk win or lose who make this country great and give hope to the smaller adventurer types. bransons main aim is to find something other people wont do find out why and have a go at it. He says it is not totally about making money its about serving the public with what they want.

People in the media especially in Britain like to find the worst in people the dirt the crap and the rumours. Alan Priddy got little coverage when he succeeded at breaking a new Atlantic record however, when the boat got engulfed by huge waves and they had to be rescued he was swarmed by the media.

In Europe they make heros out of people who do great things and stretch the boundaries and are proud of what there country men do. In Britain we look to bring them down as quickly as we put them up there and that is why tv is full of 100 channels of rubbish most of the time. Take East Enders people live of that stuff and believe it to be real. this country needs a major revamp in its journalistic view.

<hr width=100% size=1>Dom

<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.soltron.co.uk>the website</A>
MMS - Discount Chandlery
 
Re: Another programme

What!! Hardly a frame was missed were Pidars name was'nt seen. Not everyone knows who Skandia life are, just because Rolex sponsor yacht racing we are not all rushing out and ditching our Timex and as much as I love Ellen and her achievments, I don't do a detour just to get my 4x2 from B&Q. Your right not a lot of people do know who Pindar are and there are only about 50 Alphagrapics outlets in the Uk. However the apointments that Pindars salespeople have been on this week would have had a great opening, just imagine your luck, meeting with MD or FD of major prospect and as you walk in his office you find photos on the wall of yachts!! Heh! I'm dreaming!!!!

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Re:Stop the World I want to get off.

I told Dave your opinion of him. Oh! how we laughed. I guess you would have hurt him if he gave a toss for your opinion. Which I have to say didn't come across as wit, rather as a bit retentive.

I'm still waiting for you to come up with the brilliant wheeze that will make sailing a TV success. Cos "Dom Wants" aint going to get the job done. Or maybe one of your many hero's will do it for you.





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Re:Stop the World I want to get off.

????

Is something wrong?

You are the only one who does not want to see sailing on television and believe everyone else who has not joined your majority of ONE, to be an idiot.

This thread is not doing you any favours mate.

<hr width=100% size=1><A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.topcatsail.co.uk>All New website</A>
 
Re:Oh! I don\'t know.

I don't see I've claimed a majority or indicated anything other than certain facts I've gleaned from working and sailing with TV professionals. If it's made anyone feel and idiot well thats sad. I'd say the scathing tone started elsewhere.

I know it sounds unusual to to not want something you enjoy to be a covered by TV in a sympathetic way but my eyes tell me that TV and sailing don't go together and the professional opinion is that not much will change that.

Hey but thats web debating. Don't you just love it?


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THE POWER OF ONE

It was just a theory, I said probably but do tell was any of it true, now that would have ben funny /forums/images/icons/smile.gif What I was getting at was that the stuck in the office city types cant always see past their noses but there are other people out there willing to change that.

Its called THE POWER OF ONE. Where one person, if determined enough can change the the way things are done from the norm and prove the people who say it cant be done wrong by getting out there and doing it.

Lots of people told me when I was just selling Soltron in the Channel Islands (approx 15 litres a month) that I shouldnt waste my money getting into distributing yet another fuel additive through the UK as there are already 50 on the market and people are unlikely to change from the one they currently use. However, they have admitted defeat as we now average around 2000 litres a month in the UK and more through Europe.

We have some bigger contracts coming up for next year and wll not be raising the price of Soltron although I am told that I should by the same people who told me not to do it in the first place. Still small beans but its getting bigger and more popular.

All it takes is for some tv chairman or commsioning editor to get into the sport and you will probably see a change. Times change nd so do people (and old stuck in the muds eventually retire, die or get the boot), there will be a time that everyone gets sick of reality tv (I have already) and will look elsewhere for some tv thats is REAL and fun too.

Just FYI I heard today that sky sports are going to put a seperate budget and commisioning team into looking for boaty programmes and this was from a realiable source who works in the industry. He occasionally reads Zoo, Nuts and Playboy but actually gets out at the weekend and has some fun too.

Welcome to THE POWER OF ONE.

<hr width=100% size=1>Dom

<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.soltron.co.uk>the website</A>
MMS - Discount Chandlery
 
Re: Another programme

I'm not sure that you're really disagreeing with me very much. Yes if a salesman meets a prospect this week who (a) likes sailing and (b) saw the programme they have a talking point. But how likely is that and how much is it worth?

A mate's observation at Torquay (Around Alone) is that Pindar weren't interested in making contact with the public. They kept Joe Public away from the yacht. Grant Dalton, by contrast, was very open and friendly with everyone.

Pindar, quite rightly, focused on corporate guests.

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Re: My power of one is waining

The world of TV is indeed fickle. The programme you want may be made. I doubt though that it will be a robust enough flower to survive for long. The problems I list are the environment it has to flourish in and many of it's competitors will continue to start at an advantage with both cost and technology.

The world is changing, you'll see that in your IPC mags, and nobody seems to have time for indepth coverage of anything much. Sports have to change to suit media, media rarely changes to suit sport. One example was Ultra 30's. Close racing, inshore with lots of thrills and spills. TV, sponsors and top sailors went for it and viewers didn't.

I do like the skiff racing. That's not on much anymore. The Global Challenge used to get a lot of coverage but that seems to be fading. I fear that for a sailing programme to get coverage it will concentrate on reinforceing the idea that all yotties/boaties are rich, excessive, extreme or nutty. Your completely right about journalistic standards. They won't be changed though because thats what the vast majority seem to buy into.

By the way, Dave is a well known video editor. Not a Yoof. He works on Cirque Du Soleil and rock vids, natural history and sport TV. He sails a fair bit, travels a lot, reads the Telegraph for the crossword and drinks bitter.

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Re: My power of one is waining

Glad to hear that Dave is not a "Yoof" but I take it his opion then was not of his own but one of someone who knows what is needed in "todays" standard to get broadcast.

I do think times are changing and if we have a big enough voice someone will listen to us and get it done. It will only take for one to succeed for others to copy and follow.

Who knows this new Spalsh Camp could change things completely as far as boating and tv are concerned.

<hr width=100% size=1>Dom

<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.soltron.co.uk>the website</A>
MMS - Discount Chandlery
 
Cant take any more of this...

You seem to think you are the only person who is allowed an opinion on this or knows anything about it?

FYI - I spent over 3 years working in television production, working with the BBC, Eurosport and Sky on live sport events - Horse Sport actually - eventing, showjumping....
People (like you no doubt) thought this was an elite sport and no one would want to watch it but how wrong they were. We were producing one or two highlights programme a week and distributing it to over 12 countries, including the UK. This as well as getting the events broadcast live via the EBU.
So all this bollocks about minority sports and boring subjects is boring me. It can be done, it just takes hard work and determination - or is that someonething you are not familiar with?
This isnt an online debate IMHO - just you slagging off peoples ideas.

There - its probably my turn to be unpopular now....


<hr width=100% size=1>Its 11.59am - lets open the beers...
 
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