Allan
Well-Known Member
I have heard a lot of things said about new Bavaria yachts on here. Does anyone know about the history of the marque? What are the older boats like? I wonder if they may be good value now?
Allan
Allan
Bavaria
- Thread starter Allan
- Start date
xcw
Well-Known Member
Don't believe all of the mis informed ****ocks you read on here - much of it posted by people who haven't any experience of owning or sailing a Bavaria. The boats are built to a price but IMHO represent very good value for money. They are not to everyones liking but as an owner of a Bav 36 for the last 5 years I cannot fault it in any way. I understand the older boats appeared to be more "solid" (but so were older cars), however, I'm not sure they were any better. If you are considering one I would suggest you have a look at some examples, have a test sail and talk to the vast number of very satisfied owners.
AIDY
Well-Known Member
The older early 90's bav's were very well made solid boats. i looked at a 39 vision at sibs last week and was very suprised what you got for the money. the current bavs are the only manufacture in there price range that come with a proper rig and spars made by selden. not convienced on spar craft rigs.
Bav34
...
Hi Allan, things that I like about my Bav?
Furlex/Selden/Whitlock/Lewmar/Eberspacher/Volvo etc
In no particular order ... self tailing winches, reefing from safety of the cockpit, all controls... kicker, outhaul halyards in cockpit, EASY for 2 to handle, safe feeling cockpit, large locker on starboard, good fender rope storage port, gas bottle drains to atmosphere,plastic fuel tank with spin off cap should you need access, plastic water tank with spin off cap for ease of cleaning, engine installation, engine access, engine so quiet on tickover both of us have actually tried starting it when already running!, 7.2 knot potential ... cruises easily at 6k,hot water, hot water shower on transom and in heads, holding tank, large stern cabin with hanging locker, shelving plus two opening hatches for ventilation, large main cabin with 5 opening hatches, massive forward berth with two hanging lockers and seats and 3 opening hatches plus shelving and loads of storage under, privacy blinds on the 4 horizontal hatches, so much storage that we lose things, excellent chart table with first class access to electrics, fridge, wet locker, speed under sail ... 7 knots really is NOT remarkable ... only start to comment in the 8's and 9's, just spent 10 weeks around South Brittany ... 3 to 4 metre swells the norm with associated 5/6/7 force winds. Nothing happened. Why should it.? Just lots of exhilerating speedy sailing, nothing Bav broke ...why should it? Only thing in bilge (apart from electric and manual bilge pump, is dust ... probably the dryest boat that I have ever owned, hull /cockpit still as shiney as launch day .. no stress cracks/ worn gelcoat ... why should there be?
Love the way it will sit head to wind in just about anything we have been out in .. had a Feeling that used to blow off to 120 degrees leaving a slick behind it as soon as way was lost ... we are on a swinging mooring and the boat just responds to the helm as I approach at 1 knot, if you let her go she will sit comfortably beam on to the wind and as soon as you want, a quick burst of power takes her back into the wind... have never felt out of control,
Things I don't like? Have always thought that main sheeting on the coachroof not the BEST solution but it seems to be the trend as it is arguably the best compromise, size of sink in heads too big .. restricts putting things down around it, ummm... Bavbashers who enjoy baiting any AWB ... ummm nope thats about it.
REALLY don't understand some of the cr*p that you will read. When I had the boat surveyed 2 years ago the surveyor said that he used to do a lot of warranty work on French boats and in his opinion Bavs had no more problems than any other marque ... there are a lot around ...and if I hear about the racing one that lost it's keel one more time I might actually have to strangle someone /forums/images/graemlins/ooo.gif
ANYTIME you are in the area contact me and I'll take you for a sail and you can experience for yourself why I went out for a 2 hour wizz this morning .... F5 Northerly ... one reef in main as was on my own ... 8.2 max speed.... but the bottom is getting a bit dirty /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif
Rgds Steve
ps told you it was in no particular order /forums/images/graemlins/ooo.gif
Furlex/Selden/Whitlock/Lewmar/Eberspacher/Volvo etc
In no particular order ... self tailing winches, reefing from safety of the cockpit, all controls... kicker, outhaul halyards in cockpit, EASY for 2 to handle, safe feeling cockpit, large locker on starboard, good fender rope storage port, gas bottle drains to atmosphere,plastic fuel tank with spin off cap should you need access, plastic water tank with spin off cap for ease of cleaning, engine installation, engine access, engine so quiet on tickover both of us have actually tried starting it when already running!, 7.2 knot potential ... cruises easily at 6k,hot water, hot water shower on transom and in heads, holding tank, large stern cabin with hanging locker, shelving plus two opening hatches for ventilation, large main cabin with 5 opening hatches, massive forward berth with two hanging lockers and seats and 3 opening hatches plus shelving and loads of storage under, privacy blinds on the 4 horizontal hatches, so much storage that we lose things, excellent chart table with first class access to electrics, fridge, wet locker, speed under sail ... 7 knots really is NOT remarkable ... only start to comment in the 8's and 9's, just spent 10 weeks around South Brittany ... 3 to 4 metre swells the norm with associated 5/6/7 force winds. Nothing happened. Why should it.? Just lots of exhilerating speedy sailing, nothing Bav broke ...why should it? Only thing in bilge (apart from electric and manual bilge pump, is dust ... probably the dryest boat that I have ever owned, hull /cockpit still as shiney as launch day .. no stress cracks/ worn gelcoat ... why should there be?
Love the way it will sit head to wind in just about anything we have been out in .. had a Feeling that used to blow off to 120 degrees leaving a slick behind it as soon as way was lost ... we are on a swinging mooring and the boat just responds to the helm as I approach at 1 knot, if you let her go she will sit comfortably beam on to the wind and as soon as you want, a quick burst of power takes her back into the wind... have never felt out of control,
Things I don't like? Have always thought that main sheeting on the coachroof not the BEST solution but it seems to be the trend as it is arguably the best compromise, size of sink in heads too big .. restricts putting things down around it, ummm... Bavbashers who enjoy baiting any AWB ... ummm nope thats about it.
REALLY don't understand some of the cr*p that you will read. When I had the boat surveyed 2 years ago the surveyor said that he used to do a lot of warranty work on French boats and in his opinion Bavs had no more problems than any other marque ... there are a lot around ...and if I hear about the racing one that lost it's keel one more time I might actually have to strangle someone /forums/images/graemlins/ooo.gif
ANYTIME you are in the area contact me and I'll take you for a sail and you can experience for yourself why I went out for a 2 hour wizz this morning .... F5 Northerly ... one reef in main as was on my own ... 8.2 max speed.... but the bottom is getting a bit dirty /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif
Rgds Steve
ps told you it was in no particular order /forums/images/graemlins/ooo.gif
Jonny_H
Well-Known Member
The older ones are much heavier, and built more solidly. When I was buying our boat I looked at the older ones very seriously. As a comparison - have a look at the displacement ratios below (displacement / waterline length) - the older Bavaria's at the far right are much heavier (and akin to the Moody of the simalar size) than the newer Bavaria's which are far lighter:
Don't want to comment on the new boats, as I have no experience of sailing them etc (other than a weeks charter in the Med which was coloured by sunshine and beer!) - but the above shows how much lighter the current ones are than the ones from the early 90's.
Jonny
Don't want to comment on the new boats, as I have no experience of sailing them etc (other than a weeks charter in the Med which was coloured by sunshine and beer!) - but the above shows how much lighter the current ones are than the ones from the early 90's.
Jonny
Bav34
...
Not sure why you are replying to me Jonny .... nor the REAL point of the post. Built more solidly? My 89 Westerly had creaky decks, leaks and hairline cracks in the gel. Early 90's??? What has that got to do with modern boats? Displacement ratios? One of the many things I forgot to mention (thank god some people will say /forums/images/graemlins/ooo.gif) is that a VAST percentage of our sailing is done on autopilot. That to me is a sign of a well balanced boat. The ONLY weather it couldn't cope with was on a genuine F7 dash from Belle Isle to Isle de Groix .... 8-9 knots most of the time maxxing at 10.3, but the large Atlantic swell took a bit of wheel twiddling so that I could edge up the wave fronts. Exhilerating!!
Jonny_H
Well-Known Member
Firstly - sorry - didn't mean to reply to you, just a general reply.
Secondly - the original post asked about the difference between the old and new Bavarias - I was simply passing on the knowledge I had found. I never said the heavier boat was 'better' - just that the old boats were built more solidly (ie heavier) than the new ones - surely no one can deny that.
Again, I haven't sailed a Bavaria extensively and I don't hold a grudge against Bav owners or any other AWB's - they are great for what they are designed for and if our plans were different I have no doubt we would own a Bav/Jen/Ben as they are very nice boats.
I only pass on my findings (and include other boats as a comparison).
We looked at the new Bav 37 - and liked the layout etc very much - but it wasn't suited to our purpose (that isn't to say it isn't suitable for many many people).
Again - sorry if I caused offence - just wanted to pass on the info I had
Jonny
Secondly - the original post asked about the difference between the old and new Bavarias - I was simply passing on the knowledge I had found. I never said the heavier boat was 'better' - just that the old boats were built more solidly (ie heavier) than the new ones - surely no one can deny that.
Again, I haven't sailed a Bavaria extensively and I don't hold a grudge against Bav owners or any other AWB's - they are great for what they are designed for and if our plans were different I have no doubt we would own a Bav/Jen/Ben as they are very nice boats.
I only pass on my findings (and include other boats as a comparison).
We looked at the new Bav 37 - and liked the layout etc very much - but it wasn't suited to our purpose (that isn't to say it isn't suitable for many many people).
Again - sorry if I caused offence - just wanted to pass on the info I had
Jonny
TigaWave
Well-Known Member
Yep they were in my view better built boats with larger fittings for the same length and sail area. One of the best boats I've sailed on, and thats even when compared to a Sweden of similar age. The Bav was holding up better.
I had a 390 (12.15m LOA with 3.90m beam) the fittings were larger with more fixings larger winches, larger section boom than the 2002 Bav 44 parked next to mine. Very well designed boats with lots of useful features and the aft cabin looked like this!
I had a 390 (12.15m LOA with 3.90m beam) the fittings were larger with more fixings larger winches, larger section boom than the 2002 Bav 44 parked next to mine. Very well designed boats with lots of useful features and the aft cabin looked like this!
Allan
Well-Known Member
Many thanks for all your input. It has always seemed to me that Bavaria make boats that fit very well in the market and are difficult to fault for the price, which I think is their aim. I can't afford a new one but I have seen a couple of older ones at very reasonable prices. I think they would be the heavier early ones. I seem to remember reading somewhere that they used to be built in Germany, then they moved production to somewhere like Poland to reduce costs. I imagine the heavier ones mentioned above are from before the move. They all (new and old) seem like good value.
Allan
Allan
Jonny_H
Well-Known Member
I know you've posted that pic a few times - it amazes me every time - what a cabin for an aft cockpit boat - wow /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif
Jonny
Jonny
ajt
Well-Known Member
And very clean sheets too!
I looked at quite a few older Bavaria's and I thought they were good boats for the money, yes they have people who knock them but as has been said very good value, don't be put off by rumours go and view some!
I looked at quite a few older Bavaria's and I thought they were good boats for the money, yes they have people who knock them but as has been said very good value, don't be put off by rumours go and view some!
TigaWave
Well-Known Member
Its the 350/3709/390 range that were very much a different boat and I think the latest ones you will find are around 1992. Most were made with a slightly off white gel coat.
Oliveoyl
Well-Known Member
is "stateroom" not more appropriate than cabin?
Bav34
...
Jonny, thanks for that .... absolutely no offence taken. Just didn't understand the 'implication' that just because a modern boat is more lightly built than older versions and that the DR is less then that in some way is any sort of problem.
The day that my boat falls apart due to shoddy build (which I sincerely doubt) I will be the first to start slagging off the marque. But at least, unlike others, I will be doing it on an informed basis.
The day that my boat falls apart due to shoddy build (which I sincerely doubt) I will be the first to start slagging off the marque. But at least, unlike others, I will be doing it on an informed basis.
TigaWave
Well-Known Member
It was kind of nice with two full sized hatches, and the biggest shower I've found on any boat up to 60' do you want to see the crew bunk cabin as well?
AIDY
Well-Known Member
Yup !!!! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif and the rest of the boat#
Don't like the chances of the shell beating to windward /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif
Don't like the chances of the shell beating to windward /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif
Oliveoyl
Well-Known Member
Don't be daft, that's no shell, it's the foghorn!
Jonny_H
Well-Known Member
Go on - make us all jealous!
Oldhand
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Its the 350/3709/390 range that were very much a different boat and I think the latest ones you will find are around 1992. Most were made with a slightly off white gel coat.
[/ QUOTE ]
The 390 I know is still going strong after moving to France but but our local "boatcare" specialist complained the gelcoat was very thin when he came to polishing it. One could certianly see the pattern of the woven rovings in the coachroof layup through the gel coat.
Its the 350/3709/390 range that were very much a different boat and I think the latest ones you will find are around 1992. Most were made with a slightly off white gel coat.
[/ QUOTE ]
The 390 I know is still going strong after moving to France but but our local "boatcare" specialist complained the gelcoat was very thin when he came to polishing it. One could certianly see the pattern of the woven rovings in the coachroof layup through the gel coat.
TonyS
Well-Known Member
Can I please correct you. The current Bavarias are all made in Bavaria. They are lighter because they are made exactly the same on an assembly line just as cars are made. Lighter boats mean faster boats. I agree with everything Steve (BAV34) says and have a Bav 36. We also spent 10 weeks sailing to South Brittany and the Vendee in the last 2 years and the boat is superb. We beat a bigger Malo across the channel in F5/F6. In F6 and tacking he was slightly faster (heavier and could go better through the waves) but when the wind dropped to F5 we shot past him until he was nearly hull down. My only criticism of Bavs is the model name. I should describe mine as a Bav 36 (2002-2006) not a Bav 36 (199?-2000). Bav 37 has been used for 2 ranges and there is a new Bav 34 at the show but not the same as Steve's.