Bavaria Yachts

[max]

Sounds like the incident at Ken Browns. If so, good to hear the boat survived as it certainly sounded like a write-off situation.

It was indeed that incident - the result of mechanical failure. The boat was returned as good as (or in some ways better than) new following a great job by Osmotech. The only way you can tell is that the gelcoat on the the replacement sections is truly smooth as opposed to the mircroscopic ripple in the gelcoat created by the robots! The yard team were amazed at the strength of the build of the hull and especially the stiffening frames bonded to the hull.

 

[jonjo]

As for Rude retaliation... Were was I rude?

Photodog you disappoint me, you should know better since you chase politicians in your profession.

Squeaky is using the oldest debating trick in the book, all well trained political rats know that when cornered with their sleazy pants around their ankles - turn the debate into a process story.

By complaining about the style of your posts Squeaky is hoping we will forget that his wicked post crashed and burned within hours together with his online reputation.

 

[jonjo]

Like shooting fish in a barrel ........

A better analogy is watching a flock of washed up Alf Garnet type characters ranting about their favourite delusion.

 

[Monique]

As owner of an older Bav 46 Exclusive (97), I read every word of this thread.

From personal experience, my boat is well built; I replaced the starboard toe rail due to substantial damage following a storm. (The neighbour boat was not correctly tied to its berth...)The surveyor who prepared the estimates for the insurer stated "very well built boat" "I was not expecting this level of quality".. I grinned of course. (GRP damage was superficial with no delamination)

However, the 46 Exclusive was built in very small numbers (13 IIRC) and was German Lloyds 100 certified.

IMO, Bav now builds a correct boat to compete with the other light boat builders... compare the weights of the different builders = same for same sized boat.

 

[KellysEye]

Two dismasted yachts arrived in Lagos about a month ago.

One was a 28 foot French yacht of unknown make that got rolled on passage from Casablanca to Sagres.

The other was a Bavaria 40 something that lost it's mast on passage from Madeira to Lagos. The interesting thing about this is the mast broke just above the gooseneck - something I've never seen before. I couldn't find out what failed.

 

[Fire99]

As owner of an older Bav 46 Exclusive (97), I read every word of this thread.

From personal experience, my boat is well built; I replaced the starboard toe rail due to substantial damage following a storm. (The neighbour boat was not correctly tied to its berth...)The surveyor who prepared the estimates for the insurer stated "very well built boat" "I was not expecting this level of quality".. I grinned of course. (GRP damage was superficial with no delamination)

However, the 46 Exclusive was built in very small numbers (13 IIRC) and was German Lloyds 100 certified.

IMO, Bav now builds a correct boat to compete with the other light boat builders... compare the weights of the different builders = same for same sized boat.

I did hear that earlier Bavaria's were laid up heavier.

The thing that bugs me about this thread, is that it's done exactly what I thought it would. It's descended into a swipe at Bavaria build quality with others having to defend it based upon a story which ultimately is implying something that is inaccurate.

Closely followed by the online 'forensic team' debating the merits (or lack of) of the layup based upon the crash-damaged photos.

Would it be easier just to have one thread for all those who don't like Bavaria yachts and allow them to vent their anger and then perhaps move on.

 

[jonjo]

The interesting thing about this is the mast broke just above the gooseneck - something I've never seen before. I couldn't find out what failed.

I have heard of this before, running downwind in heavy weather with spinnaker up, boom vang highly tensioned results in strange combo of forces on mast from spinnaker pole and boom, then broach and roll the boom into the drink!

 

[damsis44]

The thing that bugs me about this thread, is that it's done exactly what I thought it would. It's descended into a swipe at Bavaria build quality with others having to defend it based upon a story which ultimately is implying something that is inaccurate.

Exactly! If Squeaky had titled his thread 'Forestay failure' or 'Dismasted' instead of 'Bavaria Yachts' then it might have been less accusatory. Using the title that he did implied immediately that he was calling into question the structural integrity of Bavarias in general. Its no wonder Bav owners felt obliged to come rushing to their yacht's defence.

 

[damsis44]

Meant to add.....

I love my Bavaria 44, I'm proud to be sailing her everytime we go out in her and can't wait for my summer hols.

And that's the last I'm going to say on the matter. Gonna find a new thread to play on.....

 

[Fire99]

Meant to add.....

I love my Bavaria 44, I'm proud to be sailing her everytime we go out in her and can't wait for my summer hols.

And that's the last I'm going to say on the matter. Gonna find a new thread to play on.....

Amen to that! No doubt a great boat which will serve you well.

Enjoy your sailing!!

 

[jonjo]

I did hear that earlier Bavaria's were laid up heavier.

The same applied to the whole industry with the exception of a few niche manufacturers.

Even the latest deluxe Swedish yachts are looking decidedly modern and light. The HR 34 and Malo 37 have the same rudder profile as the one on my Bavaria, the rudder sits in self-aligning bearings like my Bavaria (a feature that had a member of the YBW loonatic MAB fringe frothing at the mouth with cynicism 5 years ago) and Malo now proudly claim their deck mouldings are cut by their newly installed robot lazer cutter, just as Bavaria were doing 6 years ago.

 

[bbg]

Not being a structural engineer, or yet having a lot of experience in structural aspects of boats - how would I check the bow for any signs of damage?

Sail it for a week (or two, if that is the length of your charter). If the bow stays in place it is fine.
Seriously. If I had booked a charter on a Bavaria I would - in light of this thread - do absolutely nothing differently. I'd go and enjoy my week of holiday, and not even worry about this happening to me.

 

[damsis44]

Sail it for a week (or two, if that is the length of your charter). If the bow stays in place it is fine.

 

[jonjo]

There is nothing in life that can not be done a little cheaper and a lot less well.

Hah with friends like Bat21, Bavaria owners don't need enemies or even UberGeekBoy.

 

[Ricd]

The fact is, Bavaria owners know exactly what they have bought as do most of the owners of Legends unless, they were inexperienced and influenced by the claims of an unscrupulous dealer.


There is nothing in life that can not be done a little cheaper and a lot less well.

So now we are legend bashing...

One of the biggest element of build cost is labour for any mass production boat. Stream lining production methods and investing in automation is specifically designed to reduce that labour input/unit while achieving the same end result but at a lower cost. Increasing volume also allows the manufacturer to do volume deals on sourcing components further reducing unit production costs and allowing the unit to be offered at a price that under cuts the less invested competition and gain market share. There is no reason for these efficiencies to impact upon the final intrinsic "quality" of the build and every reason to believe they may well improve its consistency and reliability by eliminating the potential impact of workers having "good and bad days".
Why then do you bash Bavs.....because there are "lots" of them out there and they "cost less" than your equivalent AWB ...so naturally they must be shoddily built and the builder must have skimped on materials rather than the manufacturer simply has a very successful production and marketing strategy. You then seek out any issue involving any Bav in order to reinforce your prejudice and make you feel even more superior because you bought something else....how sad.

 

[fireball]

<snip> To claim these boats are anything other than that which they are is also misguided, modern production techniques are there to streamline the process and cut the cost. The parameter may well be set at what we can get away with not, what is desirable. I have looked at the recent models from some "quality" builders and, they would not now get my hard earned pennies, the fact is, Bavaria etc do not really pretend to be anything they are not. Do they?

There is nothing in life that can not be done a little cheaper and a lot less well.

Hmm ... modern production techniques are there just to cut cost and by implication strength?
So ... by that token - I assume it is also the way of modern techniques in the motoring industry .... would you rather have a motorway crash in a Hillman Avenger or a modern equivalent - say a Peugeot 407 ....

No?
Well - don't spout complete and utter cr4p then.
If 'modern techniques' were all about just cutting cost (and by implication strength) why would Bavaria put Kevlar in the bow sections? It costs more ...
If you want to talk about the finish quality then yes - I could agree (in part) that the recent changes to Ben/Jen & now Bav are less than desirable (in my view) and the tendency is to glue rather than screw - but I would condemn the whole brand on the latest few incarnations of the breed.

'Modern techniques' have brought a class of vessel down to a more affordable price for the 'man in the street' ... they are not all 'ocean goers' any more than the vessels preceding are suited to lounging about in comfort - as has been said before - you buy a vessel depending on what you want to do with it ...

 

[fireball]

For the record, I would never criticise another persons choice of boat or anything else for that matter.

Perhaps you and the others hereabouts would care to re read my post. I wasn't bashing Bavaria or any other make, I was merely saying that they are what they are and should not pretend to be otherwise, the owners know what they bought, to claim your Hyundai is as good as a Bentley, Jaguar or Aston Martin because essentially it does the same job is misguided. I also inferred that the build standard of some other "Quality" brands does not appear to be what it used to be!

Funny isn't it that "Hand Made" or "Custom Build" items in every field command a considerable premium over the equivalent mass produced item. Surely it cant be because they are almost without exception more desirable and, of considerably better quality and performance can it?

Hand Made or Custom Build items in most fields command a premium because they sell to a market that require something 'out of the norm' and cost more because they are heavy in the labour cost. To state that they are all of 'considerably better quality and performance' is such a sweeping statement that it cannot possibly be true ...

Recently we've had posts of Bavaria lost it's rig, a Delher that cannot take the ground as well as an HR with a de-laminated hull ... All 3 in different price brackets and built for different markets with pricing to match.

Your post was 'bashing' Bavaria's and Legends as you originally stated "The fact is, Bavaria owners know exactly what they have bought as do most of the owners of Legends unless, they were inexperienced and influenced by the claims of an unscrupulous dealer. " which implies that Bavaria and Legends are sub-standard.

Fact is that the vast majority of the "inferior" boats are still in service and have not fallen to bits. Many of these have done significant offshore passages/voyages as well.

 

[Ricd]

For the record, I would never criticise another persons choice of boat or anything else for that matter.

Perhaps you and the others hereabouts would care to re read my post. I wasn't bashing Bavaria or any other make, I was merely saying that they are what they are and should not pretend to be otherwise, the owners know what they bought, to claim your Hyundai is as good as a Bentley, Jaguar or Aston Martin because essentially it does the same job is misguided. I also inferred that the build standard of some other "Quality" brands does not appear to be what it used to be!

Funny isn't it that "Hand Made" or "Custom Build" items in every field command a considerable premium over the equivalent mass produced item. Surely it cant be because they are almost without exception more desirable and, of considerably better quality and performance can it?

Bespoke (if that is what you want) must always command a premium...consider the additional labour alone that needs to be paid back in the price it commands! But you compare a Bav to a Hyundai (not even a Ford Mondeo which is the universal benchmark of average) and then say you are not criticising!!!!!!!!...I think you had better take a close look at your values

 

[KellysEye]

>I have heard of this before, running downwind in heavy weather with spinnaker up, boom vang highly tensioned results in strange combo of forces on mast from spinnaker pole and boom, then broach and roll the boom into the drink!

Normally if the boom hits the water then the gooseneck or boom breaks. I suppose it's possible if the spinaker pole hit the water it may well take down the mast above the gooseneck at the pole 'ring'.

 

[Robin]

For the record, I would never criticise another persons choice of boat or anything else for that matter.

Perhaps you and the others hereabouts would care to re read my post. I wasn't bashing Bavaria or any other make, I was merely saying that they are what they are and should not pretend to be otherwise, the owners know what they bought, to claim your Hyundai is as good as a Bentley, Jaguar or Aston Martin because essentially it does the same job is misguided. I also inferred that the build standard of some other "Quality" brands does not appear to be what it used to be!

Actually my Hyundai Santa Fe won the 4 x 4 award of the year beating offerings from the nose up brigade, not to mention it has a standard 5 year warranty. Jaguar is made by Ford these days and the likes of BMW and Audi usually frequent the lower end of the reliability stats. Quite what all that has to do with the price of beans I really don't know.