Bavaria Yachts

[DogWatch]

If that happened to my Bavaria I would be a little more than dissapointed!

I was a bit sharp... but cmon... without putting up the pictures it was pretty bad form... I dont come on here and slag off other folks boats, I think its very bad manners.

Saying bad things about someone elses pride and joy is a really nasty thing.

If there is a real problem... properly evidenced, then fair comment, but for some bizarre reason normally lucid and balanced people feel it is perfectly ok to come on here and make me feel bad about my choice of boat.

I think that is a pretty nasty thing to do.


I think that in this case the OP was being straight... but they should have shown better judgment to avoid the possibility of being called a troll.

nasty, bad, making a forumite feel bad about themselves is ok then..

Or was this a dream then

And as for trolling, running to the lounge looking for support is what exactly.

 

[Mr Cassandra]

Should I now have my stemhead inspected----it might be catching---[/QUOTE]

No just your head

 

[Mr Cassandra]

Good evening:

Photodog: You are a p**t in my personal opinion and it doesn't surprise me to discover that you own a Bavaria.

I attempted to post a copy of an e-mail which was sent to me with attached images for the information of all members with no intention other than that however all that has happened is that I have been lectured by you and my intentions questioned.

As I suggested earlier, do me a favour and stay away from anything further I should post of this forum.

Cheers

Squeaky

Keep on posting what you want to. My friend in Poros said he did`t see the boat as he now works on the north part of Poros by the academy,don't know how he could have missed it
There are lots of bitter and twisted on here "myself included "

 

[TradewindSailor]

If you click on the little yellow icon that looks like a postcard of a mountain & then copy the link URL into the window that ops up You can display the pics direct.

My jest about the backstay tensioning looks to be more accurate than I intended! That may well have been slowly cracking up & failing over a few seasons out of sight.

Now that you've had your squabbles .....

There seems to be a lot of filler on the starboard side of the bow .... and some chopped-strand mat. A bodged repair? We shouldn't condemn a manufacturer or other Bavaria owners on the basis of this incident.

That bow laminate is extremely thin though. I think my 8' dinghy has a better lay-up.

 

[Alfie168]

Although the OP may have passed on the email with good intentions. The content of the email was pejorative and made inferences about construction standards that appear to be unjustified, if what we now know about the advice given to the skipper not to sail the boat after a collision is true.

If the OP disseminates information that has not been verified then the OP carries some of the responsibility if that information misrepresents what actually happened in a way which unfairly reflects on the product.

We've all done it at some time or other, so no ivory towers from me. Its the internet isn't it, once you've pressed that 'send' button its done, and we just have to come to terms with the fact that our intentions don't always come across in the way we intended.

I'd have a Bavaria, in fact I'd have just about bloody anything as long as it floated and sailed

Tim

 

[max]

Here goes.

I am an oversensitive Bavaria owner.

In an attempt to add some balance to the Bavarias are very lightly built strand of thinking its worth mentioning that my 39ft boat was dropped by a crane during lift in three years ago. It didn't bounce. It fell 6 feet before hitting the quayside amidships and below the waterline before falling another 6 feet into the water with the crane derrick crashing down on top taking the rig with it for good measure. Damage below the water line, in the saloon (compression damage to the bulkhead) and on deck was massive

The fact that the boat was not a total right off is a tribute to the strength of the build particularly below the water line - something the yard that repaired the boat commented on as they replaced a 6x4 ft section of the hull amongst other things.

Finally like many fat bottomed AWBs it may not sail as well as more classic designs, but by comparison with my two previous boats - Westerlys Centaur and Pentland it frankly sails like a dream. Bavaria cuts corners particularly on fiinsh, but in terms of bang for bucks they are pretty unbeatable, and from my experience are less lightly built than many other AWBs

There - got that off my chest.

 

[Robin]

Should have gone to Hallberg Rassy?

If this was a Bavaria, there would be hundreds of teeth sucking posts, but it was about a HR so politely ignored?

http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?t=235872

 

[doug748]

I am gonna stress test it by suspending the boat from the bow sprit.

I have an easier way of doing this:

http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?t=226260

see #43 :-[

 

[Mavro]

Wow, didn't know this could happen to any boat, thanks for sharing.

I've just booked a charter on one these (2007 Bavaria 46) for a week in Croatia.

Not being a structural engineer, or yet having a lot of experience in structural aspects of boats - how would I check the bow for any signs of damage?

Obviously I'm not expecting every Bavaria bow to be ripped off, maybe this one was caused by a bad batch at the factory (can happen to anything), maybe it was the bashing it got whilst racing, maybe both. But for peace of mind it would be good to know how to check for any signs of weakness. Who knows how the one I'm chartering has been treated in the past.

Do stress cracks appear? Does shining a light through the hull help show these up? Should I be worried if the bolt fittings are showing signs of rust?

I don't have my own boat (yet) so do a lot chartering and amazed at the mix of quality that you can get. I'm not Bavaria bashing or any other kind of boat bashing. Just fascinated as to what can happen and hoping to learn a bit about how to check for previous damage.

Thanks

 

[Alfie168]

If its been really well repaired you might not be able to tell if its been bashed or not, but either way, take a torch and nip into the forepeak, and see if there is any bare hull for you to examine. There may not be if it is lined. If there is an anchor locker up front then stick your head and torch into that after emptying it and have a look for any signs of repairs or filler. Most boats will need minor repairs to the bow at one time or another as thats the pointy end that hits things first (technical explanation there), so don't be spooked by minor repairs.

Its not very common for this sort of thing to happen, but it does from time to time. Boats live quite a hard life, particularly flotilla ones, but I wouldn't lose sleep over it if I were you.

Tim

 

[damsis44]

So, Boat is in collision... skipper is idiot and fails to follow advice... result is loss of stemhead fitting, and rig.

No hint or information that this is anything other than collision damage, no indication in the pictures or otherwise that build is deficient or that laminate quality is poor, or even of method of build.

I do not understand why this sort of rubbish slaggin off of a particular builder goes on. Its really complete *******s.

I have seen Bene's involved in T-bone racing accidents with huge effing holes in the sides... I have seen a Dufour 38 with identical damage show to this boat.. So, lets get one thing straight... IF YOU WHACK YOU BOAT INTO SOMETHING, ITS GONNA GET DAMAGED.

NEXT!

Here here!!!! We sail a Bav 44 2002, had a bow-thruster fitted when we bought it last year, and the layup of the hull where they cut the tunnel was very substantial. Hubby got caught in 60knots-sustained last year and the yacht performed admirably, kept them safe and suffered no damage - a testament to the marque and reassuring for us with our family on board.

(Had to say that, was so infuriated by some of the previous posts)

Wow, didn't know this could happen to any boat, thanks for sharing.

Obviously I'm not expecting every Bavaria bow to be ripped off, maybe this one was caused by a bad batch at the factory (can happen to anything), maybe it was the bashing it got whilst racing, maybe both. But for peace of mind it would be good to know how to check for any signs of weakness. Who knows how the one I'm chartering has been treated in the past.

Have you read the whole thread? About the crew that carried on racing after a collision?

Put this in perspective....you're chartering a 46' 3yr old Ocean-going cat-A sailing yacht for a weeks coastal cruising around Croatia, you probably won't even head out if its blowing more than a F6(?)....by all means check the boat out, you'd be daft not to, but I don't think you need to be asking for a structural integrity report! (tongue very much in cheek!)


PS. Hello to everyone, new to the YBW forum, but sailing-mad!

 

[Searush]

Mavro,
I doubt you will see much evidence of a repair unless you are very experienced, or it was a bad repair. This event was preceded by a collision that very probably produced clear evidence of structural damage - possibly cracks/ distortion etc. The skipper chose to ignore the evidence & the advice of others.

Unless you see clear evidence of structural damage and/or ignore good advice you shouldn't have any problems. But if I saw cracks/ distortion on a charter boat, I would point them out to the charter company & ask for another boat, my money back or some written guarantee that it was safe.

 

[Robin]

Some people have strange ideas about the thickness of layups on their boats. The thickness as seen in the lower hull where you might cut a hole for a transducer will always be substantial, however that is not an indication that it is the same all over because it most certainly will not be.

We had a Westerly 33, the Laurent Giles Ketch version, some years back and these are heavily built. The core removed to fit a new log transducer on that boat was incredibly thick, taken as it was about a foot or so ahead of the keel. We had a bit of pilot error one night returning from a cruise (perfect weather, good vis, no wind..) and managed to hit the first starboard buoy on our way into our home port, at 6kts. The buoy hit the anchor over the bow, bounced away and came back for a second go, this time knocking a hole in the hull through into the chain locker above the waterline close to the starboard bow. The repairers cut out the hole removing about 2ft x 1ft of panel, then laid up a repair that was invisible. However the point is that the panel thickness where the hole was made was not that great, maybe 10mm max.

Our last boat was a Jeanneau and the hull was laid up with Kevlar, same stuff used in bullet proof vests. I didn't try the starboard buoy test on it but I'm sure the bow area layup was plenty strong enough but no thicker than on the Westerly despite it being a 41ft boat.

There was also an Elan in our YC, holed in the bow racing and that really did look thin to me, but nobody thought much of it.

Moral? This boat apparently had enough collision damage visible enough to prompt a warning not to go out, yet chose to do a bodge attempt to the forward rigging attachment and then wondered why the mast came down. NUTS!

As before, not a Bav owner, never have been, never will be but like to keep an open mind.

 

[fireball]

Well - obviously layups must be measured in whole inches ... just like the standing rigging - 8mm generally for this size of boat isn't it - might get 10mm I guess - but no more ... where is the strength? It's in the stretch - and this is where the boat needs it's strength. By the looks of things this one had a blummin good bashing to break out like that - but it isn't unknown for all sorts of boats to have this type of failure - especially if it's hit something solid ...

A Bavaria Owner - still complete with Keel & Mast despite full sail in 25 knots.

 

[flaming]

Any racing skipper who wallops the bow hard, always sends someone to look at the stemhead fitting.

To suggest that it's a sign of weakness in the layup, or the type, that a large collision then causes the rig to come down in this way is utterly bonkers.

I have seen 2 collisions of this type. One of yacht vs Solent channel marker - head on at 7 knots, and one of yacht vs other yacht in a T-boning.
In both cases the damage was extensive, and required quick action to save the rig, and in fact in the second instance the rig was later condemed. But the most impressive part was that the T-boning yacht caused a considerable hole in the other boat, without actually holing itself at the bow.

Bows are very strong, but the attachment of forestay to bow is vunerable.

 

[damsis44]

Bavaria yachts

I own a Bavaria 44 and out of all the yachts I have owned over the years (Including new Jeanneau and Beneteau yachts) it is the best one so far, Oh and by the way it eats 473's for breakfast..

 

[Ricd]

Some people have strange ideas about the thickness of layups on their boats. The thickness as seen in the lower hull where you might cut a hole for a transducer will always be substantial, however that is not an indication that it is the same all over because it most certainly will not be.

We had a Westerly 33, the Laurent Giles Ketch version, some years back and these are heavily built. The core removed to fit a new log transducer on that boat was incredibly thick, taken as it was about a foot or so ahead of the keel. We had a bit of pilot error one night returning from a cruise (perfect weather, good vis, no wind..) and managed to hit the first starboard buoy on our way into our home port, at 6kts. The buoy hit the anchor over the bow, bounced away and came back for a second go, this time knocking a hole in the hull through into the chain locker above the waterline close to the starboard bow. The repairers cut out the hole removing about 2ft x 1ft of panel, then laid up a repair that was invisible. However the point is that the panel thickness where the hole was made was not that great, maybe 10mm max.

Our last boat was a Jeanneau and the hull was laid up with Kevlar, same stuff used in bullet proof vests. I didn't try the starboard buoy test on it but I'm sure the bow area layup was plenty strong enough but no thicker than on the Westerly despite it being a 41ft boat.

There was also an Elan in our YC, holed in the bow racing and that really did look thin to me, but nobody thought much of it.

Moral? This boat apparently had enough collision damage visible enough to prompt a warning not to go out, yet chose to do a bodge attempt to the forward rigging attachment and then wondered why the mast came down. NUTS!

As before, not a Bav owner, never have been, never will be but like to keep an open mind.

I have sailed many different yachts over the years and take away the insulation lining in the forepeak they are in general all fairly thin. My understanding is that Bav's also have a layer of Kevlar cloth laminated in the forward sections of the hull beneath the get coat specifically to take impact. I am sure I saw a video of Bav's being driven hard into hard/solid submerged stuff to demonstrate the strength this gives them. Certainly the chain plates on my 2000 build 34 are bolted onto massive knees.

 

[damsis44]

I own a Bavaria 44 and out of all the yachts I have owned over the years (Including new Jeanneau and Beneteau yachts) it is the best one so far, Oh and by the way it eats 473's for breakfast..

Slight duplication here, hubby has just hijacked my user-id! Have taken him to task and told him to get his own! (But he's right about the 473s)

 

[rwoofer]

Here goes.

I am an oversensitive Bavaria owner.

In an attempt to add some balance to the Bavarias are very lightly built strand of thinking its worth mentioning that my 39ft boat was dropped by a crane during lift in three years ago. It didn't bounce. It fell 6 feet before hitting the quayside amidships and below the waterline before falling another 6 feet into the water with the crane derrick crashing down on top taking the rig with it for good measure. Damage below the water line, in the saloon (compression damage to the bulkhead) and on deck was massive

The fact that the boat was not a total right off is a tribute to the strength of the build particularly below the water line - something the yard that repaired the boat commented on as they replaced a 6x4 ft section of the hull amongst other things.

Sounds like the incident at Ken Browns. If so, good to hear the boat survived as it certainly sounded like a write-off situation.

 

[grumpygit]

Here goes.

I am an oversensitive Bavaria owner.

In an attempt to add some balance to the Bavarias are very lightly built strand of thinking its worth mentioning that my 39ft boat was dropped by a crane during lift in three years ago. It didn't bounce. It fell 6 feet before hitting the quayside amidships and below the waterline before falling another 6 feet into the water with the crane derrick crashing down on top taking the rig with it for good measure. Damage below the water line, in the saloon (compression damage to the bulkhead) and on deck was massive

The fact that the boat was not a total right off is a tribute to the strength of the build particularly below the water line - something the yard that repaired the boat commented on as they replaced a 6x4 ft section of the hull amongst other things.

Finally like many fat bottomed AWBs it may not sail as well as more classic designs, but by comparison with my two previous boats - Westerlys Centaur and Pentland it frankly sails like a dream. Bavaria cuts corners particularly on fiinsh, but in terms of bang for bucks they are pretty unbeatable, and from my experience are less lightly built than many other AWBs

There - got that off my chest.

Not so sensitive ? I think as a Bav owner you have given a pretty fair appraisal and not tended to defend them to the death.

From the pictures with a repair or not they look quite flimsy for a forestay and may have relied on the anchor roller system for extra bracing between foredeck and bow ?

If no one has heard of this damage been caused by natural usage one has to assume the start of the damage was caused from a this collision along with any other possible prior damage.

In defense of any make of yacht I can't see the bow and foredeck failing together.

So rest at ease you Bav owners.......................................