Bavaria ocean 47

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ohturoey

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hi
i'm new to this forum and i have to say it looks great!
have done a lot of interesting reading here and are looking forward for more to come.
I have been searching for any kind of information about the Bavaria 47 ocean, and i cant really find verry much about that boat, interested in pros and cons, related to the quality of the boat,seaworthines, cruiser, and for blue water sailing.
all information is greately apreciated
ove

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I think it is possible to go blue water sailing in any sort of boat... And folks do very succesfully -
However light weight cheaply mass produced craft like Bavaria, Jennean, Bennatau Hunter etc start to look very tired very quickly - their hulls tend to flex a lot and bulheads move. For Ocean sailing I think its better to look at Oyster, HB, Westerly, Moody type boats of a heavier construction.

<hr width=100% size=1>If you have time visit my web site
www.michaelbriant.com/sailing
 
Hi Michael. You say all those bad things about AWB's, pretty bigotted I would say. I see just as many aging Bens, Bavs, Jens etc as I see old Moodys. I see in your bio that you have a Primrose Moody. Not my choice either for a major voyage.

<hr width=100% size=1>I never make the same mistake twice. I always make new ones.
 
Hi waterboy,
Not quite sure what a AWB is???

I think the boats I mentioned,as perhaps not the best for blue water cruising are great value for money if you want to go sailing locally and only undertake the occaisional ocean passage - but as an investent - getting some of your money back when you eventually sell and for solid hull superstructure reliability when times get interesting,I am not so sure.

My old moody 36 is now 25 years old - last year she did 15,000 nautical miles - sure she needs some TLC - I had to replace all the sea cocks last winter - I have replaced all the standing rigging etc but the hull and superstructure 'appear' (tempting providence!!!) to be as strong and robust as when she was built. For the mostpart the gelcoat is in a pretty good state - hardly any crazing and responds well to polish.. She is not pretty - rather ugly in fact - she is not smart or fashionable - I must redo all the varnish on the interior this winter but she has sailed some 40 odd thousand miles in the last 10 years...

I delivered a brand new Bravaria 37 from Chichester to Gibraltar a couple of years ago in the summer - never experience more than 30 odd knots all the way and never had big seas - I did my best to avoid it slamming and tried to be user friendly - when it got to Gib not one door in any bulkhead fitted... The gloss had already gone off the gelcoat in some places...

One of the Red Sea boats last year was a new Bravaria 47?? I think - new in New Zealand - By Suez it was already looking tired even though it had wise careful owners...
You can cruise in anything of course I have several friends in ex charter boats and its fine but if you are starting from scratch then possibly heavier more solidly built boats are better>>???

<hr width=100% size=1>If you have time visit my web site
www.michaelbriant.com/sailing
 
Thanks everybody for the inputs, I do understand that there is more to a boat then good looks... and if I just had that extra cash that is always missing I think I would go for a boat with long keel, skeg rudder and more heavy built, but as I look around HR, Najad, Westerly and so on you have to look into a boat that is nearly 20 years old, and even then its more expensive then the Bavaria, so of course there must be a quality difference here? I can’t believe that it's only the name/brand.
Anyway there are also always some problems and extra expenses following a boat of that age. Example the cheapest (I could find) HR 49 is from 84 and listed at 240'Euro, a HR 45 from 91 290'Euro, oyster and Najad way over, Bavaria 47 Ocean from 2000 at 186’ Euro.
I can just feel my head spinning between what I want and what that is possible to afford.
I hope that everybody can live with, and understand my spelling and grammar since English is not my first language.
Best regards
Ove


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Re: Moody 36 negatives

I would do an ARC run in a Moody 36 but the design would not be my choice for extended blue water cruising.

6.6 tons distributed around such a bulbous hull means they are not that heavily constructed.

The hull is very broad with a beam to length ratio of 34%, which is not a figure I would feel comfortable with. Plus the overall hull looks like a scaled up Westerly Centaur which is hardly conducive to pleasant long distance sailing.

The sail area is too low with a working sail plan below 100sq ft per ton. This will lead to the now common complaint from blue water yachtsmen about their traditional boat design being too reliant on engine power.

The genoa is 20% over the recommended 400sq ft max area/sail recommended for shorthanded sailing. This can be attributed to the mast head rig, IOR influence and the fact that yacht designers were a bit coy about high cruising masts back in those days.

The center cockpit is perched high above water line due to the market obsession in those days about a walk through tunnel to the aft cabin. This equates to exposure, amplified motion and lack of forward visibility behind the foresail.

Finally the Moody 36 dates back to a period when yacht designers and manufacturers had not comprehended the degree of GRP reinforcement required to securely fix shroud chainplates to the hull and a fin keel to a round-bottomed hull.

Oh, and let's not forget those long slit windows, so in vogue at the time. They always end up leaking due to hull flexing.

Oh2, don't forget the Nicholson, Moody and Westerly design blind spot re. insufficient web structures inside rudders.

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Re: Moody 36 negatives

> Have you done any extended cruising?

Not as much as you.

A transatlantic in a 50 foot ferro yacht.
Two months ambling northwards through the Caribbean on a South African moulded Moody 40.
4 months living on the River Hamble (didn’t go far!).

f.y.i.

The gloves are now off in the classic v. AWB debate.

I am fed up with seeing pre-emptive and ignorant attacks here at Scuttlebutt against the type of boat I have decided to own. From now on all such posters will get a detailed critique of their own boat from me. You were the first.

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Re: Moody 36 negatives

Jonjo hi - sorry please disregard my last post - very rude and your opinion is I am sure as valid as any.

I really do not want to say an old Moody 36 is the perfect cruising boat - Doubt if there is such a thing - I was only saying that really lightweight built to a price modern boats are sometimes not totally reliable in ocean conditions over a longer period.

Do not really agree with you about the construction of moodys (I think their back up service is deplorable and they are only interested in selling) or westerly or HR et al but it is a lot thicker and heavier than you suggest.
Sure the broad beam is not very pretty but the accomadation it provides is amazing and pretty well designed for living aboard.

She is comfortable to sail in and on passage I average 5.5knots (Atlantic, Pacific and Indian Ocean ave 6) Normally, as soon as I'm out of the anchorage, I turn off the engine and sail - certainly she is no racing boat but with 5 anchors, 30 mt 10mm chain, Jerry jugs of Diesel, water, sea anchor etc etc you would not expect her to be.

Had a look at the chain plate fixings in New Zealand because I had not check all that since renewing the standing rigging in Gib a few years before and found them to be fine.

One of the windows did leak after a few years in the tropics but I just took it out and reseated them with new mastic and is fine now.

If I had all the money in the world I would have had an HR or Oyster or other modern quality boat to cruise in.

Bambola cost me what I could afford and leave me enough to buy a Hydrovane, SSB, watermaker etc etc. I paid £36,000 for her 12 years ago and I think I would get about the same today for her..

I have thought of upgrading but why - she can sail the world again- she is not smart or elegent or fashionable but she, like many boats of her generation is constructed to a high specification and is reliable.

Of course there are lots and lots of other boats that make better blue water cruising boats but my moody is brought and paid for and can go anywhere and in most conditions is a pretty safe platform...

<hr width=100% size=1>http://www.michaelbriant.com/sailing
 
Re: Moody 36 negatives

Sorry our posts crossed.

Ferro boats are good too - I have met lots and they provide good cruising homes - What was wrong with the moody 40?

Listen I don't think it matters what boat you have so long as you like it and are confident in it - I have met stacks of AWBs around the world - there was a great US couple aged 70 in a Hunter in Phuket heading for Europe - frankly I think it is the person not the boat -

The trick is to cast off and sail away and enjoy - have fun - it is a wonderful lifestyle full of very nice people of all types and nationalitys in all sorts of boats from Twisters to million pound jobs and we all have the same problems and challanges.
I had trot moorings on the Hamble for a decade or so - beautiful river but there is a big big world out there and all you have to do is to cast off. I doupt your boat will sink whatever it is - enjoy... It's your boat, you don't have to defend it. It could be the perfect cruising boat - or not - but just go crusing.
fair winds and safe landfalls
Michael

<hr width=100% size=1>http://www.michaelbriant.com/sailing
 
Re: Moody 36 negatives

> sorry please disregard my last post

No problem, you have just stumbled into the classic v. AWB debate that has been brewing for ages at YBW.com.

To date the AWB fraternity have gracefully tolerated all sorts of unprovoked abuse from classic boat owners. In your case however your comments were reasonable and moderate, but you did ask for an opinion sorry.

I think the heavy/light construction issue is over stated. Take my yet to arrive Bavaria Match 35:

At 5.5 tons on a much slimmer hull and a light keel (33% ballast ratio), I wonder how your 6.6 ton hull is more heavily constructed than mine?

My keel is lead.

My mast will be from Seldon, given 20 years of advances in material science and design it will probably be better in many respects but the racing pre-bend is a significant negative from a longevity point of view I confess.

Similar arguments would apply to my engine and deck fitments.

I feel the modern GRP chemistry and Kevlar reinforcement in my hull puts it ahead of an older Moody hull.

The shrouds of my keel stepped mast are attached to some massively engineered fixings taken down to a floor pan grid of enormous proportions that in turn encapsulates a stainless steel cross member.

In near broach situations my 7 foot keel and big rudder will give me more control than your hull shape and rudder will provide.

Having owned a center cockpit boat I have to say that I felt strangely disconnected from the sailing experience compared to an aft cockpit boat.

Ok so which boat would I choose for blue water cruising?

For a 6 month fun run down from Plymouth to the Caribbean I would choose my Match 35, it would be a far more satisfying sailing experience.

For a 3 year blue water cruise I would opt for your Moody on the basis that the interior furniture would stand up better to the daily ware and tear. Anchoring arrangements would be much better and finally at 6months plus your boat becomes a long-term home so load carrying becomes a top priority.

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Re: One more Moody +ve

I forgot to add that a long term commitment to cruising probably entails getting by on less money in which case a wisely chosen second-hand yacht should be cheaper over time compared to my chosen boat after depreciation and extra upfront capital are factored in.

I stress the phrase "wisely chosen" because I suspect many people rush in after reading sell up and sail, fall for the classic is better line and by the time they have reached the Canaries they have spend far more than anticipated.

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hi again

so from all i'm reading here, i can see that there is some kind of negative thinking against massprod. boats...
but does that mean that like the bavaria 47 ocean is not a good and safe boat?
would it be irresponsible to use a yacht like this for extended blue wather cruising, and would it be "too" uncomfortable??
and of course it would also be a big investment so whats the chanses to get all or a fair amount of the money back.....
ove

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