Bavaria Bashers Beware!

That is one fugly boat...

A few years ago a Bavaria thirty- something was out the water alongside my old 1984 Beneteau. I stepped aboard it to get a better look at what ever it was I was working on and was shocked at how much the side decks flexed as I walked on them.
No doubt some geek with glasses like milk bottle bottoms and a row of different coloured pens in his shirt pocked has used a mac computer to 'engineer' the structure of them- watched over by an accountant...
I wouldn't buy one but plenty people do and even go sailing on them so they can't be that bad.
 
wotayottie said:
GRP is translucent. Both the glass and the resin. Old boats were often padded out with fillers like slate dust which in turn made the laminate non translucent. Proves nothing strength wise.
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I accept that, but the thicker the laminate the less translucent the finished product. I am told that some surveys do shine a torch through hulls to check uniformity of thickness. I have noticed on my hull that this varies over a relatively small area & one cannot help but wonder why. I suspect Westerly owners could not do that. But then my boat sails much faster!! & if designers are able to design to fine tolerances then there should be no problem. Unless of course, the yard does not manufacture to that design correctly. Some older boats have really thick laminate & his could be for 2 reasons 1) inability to control production so slap on an extra layer to make sure or 2) to ensure a really strong item
Bavaria try to really control manufacture to the "Nth" degree so the designer need not allow for additional strengthening being confident that the construction will meet the standard set by the specifier ( the builder)
Unfortunately they get it wrong from time to time. Whilst Bavaria come up for criticism it has to be said that they still are the one of the largest boat builders & meet the requirements of the buying public. Theor boats (mostly) do what is required . Good to live on for short periods, sail reasonably well, & at a price many can afford. Cannot knock that really!
 
dancrane said:
That's appalling - how much more difficult and expensive could it have been, to do the job properly in the first place? It sounds such an elementary thing to get right...can there be any excuse for hulls that reportedly flex as mentioned in this thread?
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You are displaying your ignorance here. As many have said solid laminates are translucent. My memories of early sailing are lying in the forward bunk of a Sabre (now there's a brick outhouse style boat for you!) marvelling at being able to see the bubbles in the water rushing by when thrashing to windward.

However on my Bavaria you cannot see through the topsides because it is sandwich construction. However if you go into the bilges, for example under the forward bunks or in the stern locker you can see the transition between the sandwich construction and the solid laminate below the waterline. When the sun shines on this bit you can see the water through the laminate.
 
Well - our Bav is absolutely fine ... decks are firm, keel still attached - the only flexing I've noticed is when I've misjudged coming alongside and nudged the pontoon with the topsides - but then theyre not designed for point loading ... in fact I'm glad they flexed because otherwise it could well have cracked instead.
 
There really seem to be loads that like to slate the Bavaria at every opportunity.

I looked at them and could see nothing wrong but just prefered the Dufour and then the Jeaneau. Many makes have problems and its reasonable to expect one that sells 50x as many boats as another to have slightly more.

The acid test to me of robustness and reliability is the charter market where boats are subjected to 40yrs of private ownership in 5yrs. Bavarias stand up to this very well and so did my Dufour and now my Jeanneau. Ultimately I will take my Jeanneau out of charter use (probably after 10yrs!) spend a little money on it and have no hesitation in having it as my own boat. I believe many Bavaria owners are the proud owners of the vast number of ex-charter boats and are happy with them.

My own experience of Bavarias was a Croatia charter holiday and I found the Bav perfectly satisfactory.

Never in the field of sailing has one make been subjected to so many miles and much hard use and survived so well!!
 
mainsail1 said:
It was a Bavaria 44. Just less than 5 years old at the time the problem was discovered on survey at time of sale. Contacted Bavaria as the Agent in the UK said it was nothing to do with them because the boat was bought from Opal Marine who went bust. Bavaria said nothing to do with them and to contact Opal Marine even though they must have known Opal were in administration.
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A friend's 37 had major defects with the keel casting. This was found out after the boats warranty had expired and after Opal had gone bust.

The keel had to be completely replaced and the work was commisioned by Bavaria in a Uk yard and was FOC to the owner.

Perhaps this gives some balance to the stories about Bavarias poor attitude to warranty repairs on boats sold by Opal.

Keel was cast in Italy by a subcontractor, It was full of cavities and inclusions making it even more likely to fall off!!!
During removal it was found to be extremely well bonded to the bottom of the boat.
 
Might have the best sailing performance and accommodation and build quality of any boat ever made, but it is about the ugliest thing afloat, barring a loose container which it closely resembles.
 
Hi
I have a 2003 Bav 38 and have had so for the last 7 years, absoutely fine with no problems.
I bought it as it represented very good value for money and I knew many other Bav owners who also had no problems.
Bavaria must be doing something right to sell the amount of boats they do !!
I do appreciate that it is a cheaper end product that" adequately does what is says on the tin "
Its the same as comparing a Ford to a Bentley.
Both do the same thing, one just does it better with more comfort.
One thing to remember is that Opal were a bunch of crooks, who wouldn't do anything for anyone if it cost them money.
Quick enough to take everyones money even when they knew they were going down the pan. Many many people lost a lot of money.
 
If you want a flexible boat ...get a Bavaria.
If you want a stiff boat....get something else.
I have been below on both Bavaria 38 and 42 in heavy weather and the horrible creaking noises were..........horrible. I believe they have improved the fit of the panels so that they use less sealant but that just means more C..R..E..A..K..I..N..G!
 
From the replies on this thread it would appear that our ideas of boat beauty vary enormously. Does anyone (except Dylan) admit to owning an UGLY boat?
 
I think it looks a lot better than many other Euroboxes. Incl from the same manufacturer, in particular the efforts to blend the tinted window area to the overall.
If it really is a pleasure to sail to windward in 25kn, or even 15 kn with wind over tide, then great.

The world is full of this boats predecessors, row after row after serried rank of them. Surely the volume market is finite , even for value pricing and allowing for natural wastage? How on earth do people dump their old ones, trade in like cars?
 
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Tranona said:
You are displaying your ignorance here.
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You're right; but I was refering to Daydream Believer's description of the substandard examples of Hallberg Rassy and Princess, where poor construction had led to boats losing value massively...and I tend to wonder, for a company like Bavaria, whether the cost of heavier construction would really be greater than the ongoing disrespect that flexible construction receives...

...but I suppose we griping critics are very insignificant in real terms. If Bavaria turns out large numbers, and the catastrophe-statistics show that they really aren't ultimately made any less safe or durable by the lightweight construction, then their flexibility isn't an issue, except to yachtsmen determined not to accept that large boats can flex while staying safe & strong...and numbers of doubters will diminish over time.

As Sailfree says in post 27, nothing could easily beat the harsh test that chartering puts a yacht through, so if charter companies keep buying them, it can only be because they ARE good enough.

I sailed aboard a newish Jeanneau on bright days in recent years, but never noticed translucent bulkheads or flexible decks/locker-lids/seats. That said, I've sat aboard lots of very ancient dinghies which sagged like rotting fruit, but even they never broke or 'failed to proceed'. :)
 
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dancrane said:
You're right; but I was refering to Daydream Believer's description of the substandard examples of Hallberg Rassy and Princess, where poor construction had led to boats losing value massively...and I tend to wonder, for a company like Bavaria, whether the cost of heavier construction would really be greater than the ongoing disrespect that flexible construction receives...

...but I suppose we griping critics are very insignificant in real terms. If Bavaria turns out large numbers, and the catastrophe-statistics show that they really aren't ultimately made any less safe or durable by the lightweight construction, then their flexibility isn't an issue, except to yachtsmen determined not to accept that large boats can flex while staying safe & strong...and numbers of doubters will diminish over time.

As Sailfree says in post 27, nothing could easily beat the harsh test that chartering puts a yacht through, so if charter companies keep buying them, it can only be because they ARE good enough.

I sailed aboard a newish Jeanneau on bright days in recent years, but never noticed translucent bulkheads or flexible decks/locker-lids/seats. That said, I've sat aboard lots of very ancient dinghies which sagged like rotting fruit, but even they never broke or 'failed to proceed'. :)
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Flexing hulls occur in very exalted places. Type 42 destroyers had box girders welded along their deck edges after their flexible hulls and upper decks started to part company with their prefabricated rigid superstructure blocks (composed of small compartments).
 
I know of one case where the skipper had to issue instructions to her crew from the heads hatch because the heads door could no longer be opened due to flexing in a lumpy sea.
Don't know if it was a Bavaria though.
 
markhomer said:
ive got a 2003 b38 its a shocker

ps dont ever try cruising or sailing west coast of scotland , its the pits too ;)
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Like most things, the older ones are the better ones....( the new Bavs are hideous )

And the west coast of Scotland is an aweful place to sail.
 
Went to see a second hand Bav 34 I think it was a few years back and was appalled to find that the forward cabin door would not close about 2" out. They must skimp somewhere to keep the price down. Mind you for Marina hoppers and fair weather sailors they are probably ideal at the price.
 
Daydream believer said:
But as my teacher always said " it is the exception that proves the rule" (never did know what he meant!!)
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A bit OT, but this phrase is rather irksome. It refers back to the near-obselete meaning of 'prove', meaning to test something. Think of a rocket proving ground, for example. Hence 'the exception which proves the rule' is actually the one which most thoroughly tests the rule. However the modern day usage of the phrase is to allow people to hand-wave away evidence which does not fit their hypothesis. In its modern usage, it is pretty non-sensical really.

Back to Bavaria bashing...
 
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