Bavaria Bashers Beware!

Downsman said:
What a lot of fuss. Everyone knows Bavarias don't go to a scrap yard, they're re-cycled. Not a very complicated job either apparently as most of the main structure is retained. Mast out, a whack with a hammer on the keel and straight onto a rolling chassis.. Here you are..;)
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Oh, yes, I've seen the same done to a MAB - just the engine wasn't salvageable. Just look at the sturdy construction and classic lines. ;)

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bbg said:
Exactly. I've done thousands of miles in a boat in which I could see the sun shining through the hull. From inside, you could see the shadows cast by sails, sheets etc.
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My sister claimed she could see the lightning, even with her head under the sleeping bag....
 
Mavanier said:
A bit OT, but this phrase is rather irksome. It refers back to the near-obselete meaning of 'prove', meaning to test something. Think of a rocket proving ground, for example. Hence 'the exception which proves the rule' is actually the one which most thoroughly tests the rule. However the modern day usage of the phrase is to allow people to hand-wave away evidence which does not fit their hypothesis. In its modern usage, it is pretty non-sensical really.

Back to Bavaria bashing...
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I was just about to write the same thing before reading your post. I did say so a few years ago. I remember my English teacher laying into me when I tried to use it in the sense of "confirming". I mean, how can an exception prove a rule if it isn't in the sense of testing it?
 
Woodlouse said:
They are trying to make them better, but whilst they are still the cheapest thing available they will always be lacking in quality somewhere.
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Things can be cheap for two reasons: either they are made with inferior materials, specifications etc, or, they can be built cheaply through mass production and the optimizing of overheads.
 
(Reply to post 69)
I suppose people who use the the phrase mistakenly, are thinking that by being an exception, the fact of all other examples conforming to the tendency, displays the extent to which the bias or belief is usually well-founded...as if to say, "with this singular exception, my monstrous prejudice is justified".
 
Sybarite said:
My sister claimed she could see the lightning, even with her head under the sleeping bag....
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My good man, are you suggesting I am exaggerating? ;) I know I wasn't able to give you a tour of the boat, but I can assure you it is true. :D

In these two videos you get a glimpse of the quarters of the boat from the inside. It is easy to see the hull colour, and that is with the sun high in the sky (i.e. not shining directly on the hull). One can easily read the boat number (on the bow) from the inside, when the sun is shining directly on it. (Not shown in these videos, but I had a conversation about it with one fellow when I showed him the boat one evening.)

In this video you get a glimpse at about 1:54 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ewCotYYcRc

and in this one you get a bit of a longer look, at about 0:45 (and possibly at other points) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kayeKIUpbYE
 
dancrane said:
With total respect for your similar experience bbg, I think that appalling-looking 'lunch' is one of those facts of yachting which ought to be hushed-up, to prevent discouraging newcomers to sailing! :)
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Like Bavarias - you shouldn't knock it unless you've tried it. I quite like the good brands of freeze-dried food. I happily lived on that and little else for three weeks straight.

And what do you mean by "similar experience"? That's me, mate!:p
 
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dancrane said:
With total respect for your similar experience bbg, I think that appalling-looking 'lunch' is one of those facts of yachting which ought to be hushed-up, to prevent discouraging newcomers to sailing! :)
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I often have one . The leak & potato soup & the porridge & strawberry are particularly good
So i suppose it is a bit like Bavaria bashing
If you like it you do---& if you have not tried it you do not like it
 
bbg said:
That's me, mate!:p
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My apologies, I didn't realise. Three weeks eating that? :eek: (These smileys aren't expressive enough to show my horror, but I'm glad you survived...and enjoyed them too)...but...and I know this is only obliquely relevant to Bavarias...if that food is a consequence of weight-saving, give me a Fisher 37 with a cast-iron cooking range, over lighter vessels, any day! :rolleyes:
 
bbg said:
My good man, are you suggesting I am exaggerating? ;) I know I wasn't able to give you a tour of the boat, but I can assure you it is true. :D

Don' get me wrong. That was literally the case on my boat. On my first crossing to the Scillies we encountered a thunderstorm the like of which I had not seen since my time in the Congo. At any given moment there was a flash somewhere.

My sister was convinced that we were going to get fried and retreated to the forecabin with her sleeping bag over her head. She claimed she could still see the lightning.

In the middle of all of this a coaster came out of the murk about a hundred metres ahead of us.
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capnsensible said:
Would really like to hear from a Bavaria Basher that has actually sailed one too!!! Not gonna hold my breath though!
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I've sailed on a few. Truth be told that they are very little different from any other large production tupperware yacht. They have upped their game a bit with the last couple of models but there was a period where the boats were made far too lightly, with the result being that one saw more structural failures in Bavarias than any other make.

Maybe one day I'll go on one of these new improved boats, but it'll take more than a satisfactory sail to convince me that they are of vastly improved quality.
 
Woodlouse said:
I've sailed on a few. Truth be told that they are very little different from any other large production tupperware yacht. They have upped their game a bit with the last couple of models but there was a period where the boats were made far too lightly, with the result being that one saw more structural failures in Bavarias than any other make.

Maybe one day I'll go on one of these new improved boats, but it'll take more than a satisfactory sail to convince me that they are of vastly improved quality.
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Hiya Woodlouse. Thought this may get a bit woah as the OP! Was going to retire from it too, but can I ask about your comment re. 'more structural failures'???

I am seriously interested in finding evidence of this. Any links or pointers? Really, not a wind up, just want to find out more. Ta in advance,

CS
 
capnsensible said:
Hiya Woodlouse. Thought this may get a bit woah as the OP! Was going to retire from it too, but can I ask about your comment re. 'more structural failures'???

I am seriously interested in finding evidence of this. Any links or pointers? Really, not a wind up, just want to find out more. Ta in advance,

CS
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I don't know where you'll find evidence on the internet. But as an example at least three of Cornish Cruising's baviaria's have required major relaminating and strengthening around the keels after not particularly dramatic groundings. There was another one, I believe privately owned, that had it's forestay pull out from the stem.

It's a very small set of examples from many thousands of yachts built, and when you occasionally work with a surveyor you get to see some pretty interesting things breaking. But despite the thousands of boats by hundreds of manufacturers it does seem that Bavaria's have more than their fair share of issues.
 
Tis still going on, gee...
Well, any finkeeler when grounded will exert tremendous force on keel mount area of hull, something may happen to this, no wonder. Also when boat is battered by heavy seas.
Not on Bavarias, but when a yard in Poland bought rights to Carter 30 the design was checked by our Ship Register whether it conforms to construction rules. Apart from minor issues like strength of chainplates or mooring cleats it was found that original keel mount is not strong enough in case of grounding or capsize.
This had to be redesigned, with different placing of bolts, widening of keel base, stiffening and strenghtening bottom of the hull. I know some Carters which went aground or even on beaches in swell and came out OK, so this works.

Well, such construction rules are not easy or cheap to follow. But there are still Lloyds certifications available; in Poland some still order a boat to be built to our old rule, and this rule has been revised last year despite it's no longer 'necessary', as such. Sometime it's nice to know that builder follows well tried and proven construction methods... :cool:
 
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