Bavaria 40 Ocean

ceeagr

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Whats peoples opinion of this boat. I had a good look at it at the boat show. Looked like a moody 42 without the second head and at half the price. i.e. fully spec and kit in the water for about £120k. Bit more expensice than the aft cockpit but looked a bit more strongly built as well. Haven't exactly seen mony Bavaria Oceans around though.

People on here generaly seem to have a low opinion of Bavaria's though which is making me think twice at what seems like a bargin.

Any opinions apreciated.
 
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It all boils down to the type of sailing you want to do. They are possibly the biggest new boats for you money, and for coastal sailing / trips across to Europe etc., I am sure they would be my only choice if I were to buy a NEW boat on my budgets.

What they aren't necessarily perfect for is rougher weather / bigger seas / and all the rest. They are not easy to get "in the groove" and require more effort to sail than say an older, more traditional and heavier boat.

They suffer from a selection of deck hardware which always seems one size smaller than I would have wished for. The locker lids in the aft deck flex wildly, while those on a Najad or pacific Seacraft stay rigid. The teak decks are going to be a big pain in the backside 9and wallet) for hundreds of owners in a few years.

Choose your sailing and your goals and then choose your boat.

If I didn't have dreams of going MUCH further afield, then I think they're a bargain and would probably buy one myself. I also notice that a few Bav's are doing the ARC, so can't be all that bad.

They don't seem to be ideal for shorthanded sailing over fair distances.
 

cynthia

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Not got a biggy, just a baby Bav. (34 going on 36). Absolutely no complaints. Wait until Ken gets on to this one though. This BB is split - the traditionalist (Bless 'em) and those of us who have modern 'butterdish'. Actually we're both right - you pays your money and you takes your choice.

We like the Bav. Were able to fit it out to our own spec., as there are very few extras included in the price, and plan to sail across Biscay later in the year. Would we do the Atlantic in her? Ask me once we get to the Med.

Whatever you buy, make sure there is lots of fun and good sailing.

Fair winds and happy landings!
 

tomg

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A really great reply

I haven't got one (mine is much heavier/traditional/conservative) but I don't knock the Bavs. This reply is a well balanced, interesting and responsible reply compared to the usual knocking copy we get on this subject.
 

david_e

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There is test of the Bav44 in YM January 2002, know its not the same boat, but can't be widly different(?) and it reads well. They are described as a bargain and look good value, they will be out on the water when nearly everyone else is, and in the marina when most are I suspect.

There are those who advocate heavier sea boats, their point is that for the dosh you might spend there is alot of choice out there, but if you want new and minimum hassle then.........
 
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We have a 42AC, new April 2001. I know the 40CC quite well as it was the alternative at purchase time. We went for the 42 because it has two aft cabins to accomodate our two teen & twenty's sons when they come sailing with us.

The 40CC (Ocean) is a fine boat for a cruising or liveaboard couple. It and the new 44 are of the "newer" generation of Bavs in that there is less real wood joinery below than the 42. Also the deckhead panels are held in place by velcro although they no longer fall down due to augmentation by plastic capped screws!

The "Floors" (hull strengthening beams under the floorboards) are massive and the hull layup thickness impressive. Last years Rutgerson hatches leaked badly (although same manuf's portlights are superb) but Bavaria have just about now finished replacing them with Gebo's under warranty.

Engine installation V good but replace the Volvo anti-syphon valve with a Vetus one or you might get a bilge full of seawater should the tiniest speck of weed lodge in the inadequate flap valve.

Electrical installation is impressive and you can get at everything quite easily.

Deck gear is Rutgerson/Lewmar and well laid out and sized.

You have to like mahogany fit-outs (we do now) or the interior might seem a little dark.

General quality is very good. Boat just lacks one coat of varnish in interior to be first class.

If it weren't for the size of our family and the nee to regain capital through chartering, we would have a 40CC.


Steve Cronin
 
G

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Steve,

I am impressed with Bavaria - especially if I realise I will never afford a Pacific Seacraft 42 and for the same price I could get three Bavaria's.

What, then, are the limitations? They are not heavy boats with great displacement, but will they perform with a full long-term cruising inventory and three on board? Are there any expereinces you have read of (or been in) of the Bav's in really rough weather (F9 etc.) and how do they cope?

It's still 5-6 years until we can pack it all in a go sailing, but we plan to buy a bigger boat and live aboard again for three years prior to setting off - and I like the idea that the Bav., being new, can be fitted out without dealing with the last owner's (often poor) choices of equipment.

Email me direct, if you wish, at HJ@Seacracker.org

Re. Pacific Seacraft / Najad et al -- if you wanted a boat for 15 years, and you bught the Bav, then you could sell the Bav. every five years and get a brand new boat AND still have change! Wreck one on a coral reef - oh well, call Opal and ask when the next one can be ready <G>
 
G

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Bavaria 40 - not suitable for rough weather/bigger seas and all the rest according to Humperdinck. Could Mr Humperdinck, or anyone else for that matter, let me into the secret of how you know you are NEVER going to hit rough weather or big seas or any of the rest when you stick your nose out of harbour. Once you are past the breakwater you are at sea and should be ready for anything, both you and your boat.

But back to Bavarias. I was looking for a new boat last year and, like the originator of this message, was attracted (correction 'intrigued) by the astonishing apparent value of Bavarias. So I went to the UK agent to take a look. The sun was shining that day, right through the paper thin hull on the transom! I moved on - rapidly. A boat's looks pale into insignificance and mean nothing when you are facing 20 - 30' seas in a rising gale. Remember that in your search for the ideal boat.
 
G

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GRP is semi transparent. That you can or can't see light through the hull depend of the gel coat
 
G

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The Needles vs. the Horn -- It\'s no secret!

You can predict the weather! You will know within a Beaufort scale or two what the maximum you will experience for the next 6 - 12 hours.

The point I tried to make (and obviously failed) was that I would wonder about the sanity of taking a Bav to, say, Iceland or around the Horn. That does not (in any way) make the boat any less "good". These boats are built to far higher standards than the vast majority of the GRP boats of the '70's - inspected, better resins, etc. etc. I can think of a couple early GRP boats which were found to have all sorts of miscellaneous crap in the keel as ballast. At least with a Bav you know what you're getting. Now we have that cleared up, may I suggest that the average family sailor will know (yes, WILL) that there is zero chance of an F9 when he/she potters out of Brighton or Hartlepool or wherever in the UK because such weather doesn't just "appear". Maybe the 6 turns into an 8 but any more is very unusual. And a Bav will cope fine with an F8 like any modern 40 footer should.

So I maintain the Bav's, even with their slighly dubious cockpit lockers and one coat too few of varnish are great boats. I am happy to go sailing on them, even if a Pacific Seacraft with her massive over-construction slows her down. But what's the point of buying a boat desinged for World cruising when you don't intend to do more than maybe visit Britany or the Med once a year?

Oh, my last boat had see through GRP. Almost made me faint the first time I looked into the anchor locker down at the bow one day. It turned out that the GRP was 3 inches thick but still the light showed.

What do you sail?
 

david_e

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Re: The Needles vs. the Horn -- It\'s no secret!

The Bav for most people who know their needs is fine. No boat is perfect, they have however followed a design trend which is mirrored in cars. i.e. More space for less weight and greater strength; improved production to bring down costs and designs which suit the mass market or the market to which you target. Bav/Bens/Jens are mass market boats and as such not the Mercs of the boat world, they will do what you ask of them, but accordingley they don't carry the price tags of the super solid round the world yachts. They sell well because people want this type of boat at the price, if all that was available were the brick built types then alot less people would be sailing.

All this is said without the appreciation of design advancement. The Volvo 60's are built to go round the world in all sorts of weathers and conditions, including hitting icebergs which happened this week. These boats are light, and lightly built, but well designed. The difference from modern production boats is not so much the design compromises but the materials compromise, just like cars. IMHO Design has reached its limits in terms of major advancements, the next step forward will be the introduction of composites in construction as with the Volvo 60's. The manufacturers are onto this but no doubt conscious of the cost factor, when they overcome it then composites will be the next step forward.

Many people talk about sea boats being the only thing to venture out in, but as Humpers points out you generally know what is coming within a reasonable period or so. It is more about the sailor than the boat in these extreme conditions, generally speaking.
 
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Re: The Needles vs. the Horn -- It\'s no secret!

A force 11 'appeared' in August 79 in the Irish Sea. Boats sank and sailors died. I was there. I was navigating in the 79 Fastnet and had personally visited the S'ton Weather Centre to get the shipping forecast. Force 5 was the most mentioned for the three day forecast, yet within 48 hours of the start we were in a Force 11. I'm glad I was in a Swan and not a Bavaria.
 

david_e

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Re: The Needles vs. the Horn -- It\'s no secret!

I don't know the types of boat that suffered in this storm, are there details anywhere? Doubt they were Bavarias at that time. As for the weather, well we have been rambling on about this in other threads but who can forsee the unforeseeable? If I had the dosh then my next boat would be a Swan, the new 45 actually 20% lighter than the previous 44, but I don't so it's likely to be a Ben/Jen 'cause my research points me that way as the best compromise for the budget I have.
 
G

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Re: The Needles vs. the Horn -- It\'s no secret!

The Fastnet, like other such passages, is not generally undertaken by Mr. & Mrs. who have bought a boat for "typical" family sailing. It's a long passage through some historically unpredicatable waters at the wrong end of the Summer. You must since feel very lucky!
 

Twister_Ken

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Re: The Needles vs. the Horn -- It\'s no secret!

Although you may be confident when poking out of Hartlepool or the Hamble that nothing untoward awaits weatherwise in the next few hours, the same is not true in the Med. Several times I have been hit by unforecast strong winds whilst Sunsailing (so Bennies and Jennies), and these boats do take a great deal of nursing to get to windward in F7 or above. Ok for an hour or two if shelter is nearby. But severely taxing for a mom and pop crew if it goes on much longer.
 

chrisc

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Re: The Needles vs. the Horn -- It\'s no secret!

Interesting comparison mercedes versus ....
i suspect mercedes would be quite upset at your
description of them as super solid older type car ,
they seem to have lumbered themselves with this
image and are trying like hell to get away from it.
Yes cars are using better more high tech materials
and achieving better safety and performance as a
result ,Just as Bavaria seem to be using carbon fibre
and quicker lay up times to make their product tougher
and a better integrated structure.
But there are always people who relate ammount of material
in structure to strength.,be it cars or boats.
 

zefender

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Sorry, don't have a Bav 40 (have an aft cockpit one though). My own view on the CC version is that you lose a lot on space/windage for questionnable CC advantages. Personally, I think that 40' is about the minimum for a CC boat without it looking too bulbous - but only just.

Putting dreams aside, most people will go through the realities of of ideal boat, family circumstances, intended travels ...and.. the big one ...cash. For example, is it safer/better/more seamanlike to buy a traditionally designed boat which is so expensive that some additional items might need to be bought 'at some point in the future' - e,.g radar, 2nd GPS, liferaft, GMDSS, mast steps. It might also be second hand with faults missed by the survey. Alternatively, one could buy a modern, mass production design and kit it out with absolutely everything needed - and pay for decent sailing instruction too maybe. It may not be faultess either but everything will have been put in the same place, to a known (builder spec).

Mass production is often taken to be a bad thing. If I had to rely on a car, I'd have a Toyota any day. I'd prefer an Aston Martin of course but, in a life or death mercy mission, if I owned both, I'd go for the Toyota. When the UK had UK owned volume car production, we called the new entrants in the 70's "jap crap". Now they hold a major share of the world car market. And UK car making now? The comparisons with UK boatbuilding are clear.

Taking a view about the build strength of a boat by seeing whether you can see through it is daft. It's not just a matter of the thickness or density of the material either. There's not many GRP boats around with Kevlar anti-collision matting around the bows - Bavs have. What this actually means in terms of equivilent strength of GRP I've no idea, but I trust Bavaria technology.

I suppose my point is that there are no hard and fast rules. There are countless situations where a traditional design might be less safe than a modern 'butterdish' - and some vice versa.
 

chrisc

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Absolutely with you Cynthia we have had a Bav 34 for two seasons
fortunately before window problems ,love it have great fun in will be going to
Med in spring . Before this had a long keel (vega) nice boat but trying to
get into the little harbours in the baltic were a nightmare.
 

marcost

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I have a Bavaria 430 Allantic (decksaloon, build 1991) for 5 years now on which I am living permanently. It is a well build boat and it is a very good and fast sailing boat. Downwind sailing in rough wheather is fantastic and the boat steers very easy, even the Robertson autopilot can do iit. I sailed to Lisbon and back and I am preparing a trip to the Caribean.

The prices of the bavs are low, so the company must cut down in fabric costs.

Many items on the boat could be better done but the have saved on working hours. After some years there are leaks on deck on many places. If you have a little time and two rights hands, nothing to worry about.

Furthermore, I have realised that the service after sale of Bav is really bad. I always received the answer that they could not deliver me the right parts or that they changed manufacturer; but here again with 2 right hand, no problem.

I should say It is a fine boat, but it could become a very expensive boat if you have two left hands.

ir. M. Broucke, naval architect
 
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