Bavaria 33 Cruiser

erm, I don't want to pour cold water on this but aren't Bavs so cheap cos the keels used to held on with blu-tack and they kept falling off? Only way to get custom back was to flog 'em at knock down prices. If it's too good to be true then it's usually too good to .......
 
oh come on! Bav may or may not have a problem with the keels on the racing Match series (the jury is still out on that) but there's never been any news about the keel of the cruising boats. The reason why they are cheap is because they make so many they can employ industrial scale economies.
 
I did a delivery trip on a Bav 34 in May 2004 (Gosport to Coruna).
I was surprised by how little storage space there was for a boat of her size.Far less than on my old, much smaller Liz 31. However, there is an excellent wine locker in the saloon table!!

The owners had bought her new and soon had a variety of problems, the most significant being with the steering gear, which had to go back repeatedly to Opal under the warranty, and they were far from satisfied with the service they received.

By two years old the joinery was already working loose from where it had been glassed into the hull and squeaked loudly at the slightest movement of the boat, making it impossible to sleep in the aft cabin, even in a flat calm anchorage.

The macerator pump for the holding tank had failed for the third time.

In terms of sailing, she was relatively fast in light winds and calm conditions, was great down wind even in a force 8 approaching Coruna, but was best with poled out headsail only.
Going upwind she slammed horribly in any sort of swell, which on occasion caused considerable delay to our progress. A couple in a Rival 34 were able to make much faster passages than us and had more stowage. They had been living aboard for over a year and planned to continue doing so until their money or their health ran out!!!

re liveaboard space. The owners were taking her down to the Med as part of a year out. For just the two of them it was fine for the year, and in no way did they adopt a mininimalist approach to their home comforts.

They sourced a lot of their gear from online chandleries in the USA, which even after paying shipping and import duties, they felt gave them significant savings.
Their two most valued purchases were a Magma gas fired kettle barbeque and a very clever plastic folding dish drying rack, both sourced from www.defenderUS.com
Having been on an impromptu charter in New Zealand on an old 'heavy' boat they have decided that their next boat will be of the 'heavy' variety. They sold the Bav34 at the end of their year out
 
I really wouldn't have a Bav. Haven't looked at them for a year or two... maybe they've improved. But the last time I looked, the finish was poor, poor, poor.
As an example...and only an example... look at the inside of the heads door. A veneered finish. How long is that going to take water from the shower before is starts delaminating? Not long, I'll bet.
And that's just a small quick example. There are others. Just compare the chroming on a Bav to that on a Moody. The Moody's much thicker.
And the price.... it's just too low. OK, they'll be making savings on quantity... but not so much as allows them to keep the quality of materials up.
No... they're disposable boats in my opinion... Made mainly for the charter market I suspect. Five or ten years and then throw them away... if you can find anyone to take 'em!
 
I am afraid Cliff has a point would you get this gel coat on a Bav after 29 years
81%20new%20paint.JPG

a Moody
 
[ QUOTE ]
I really wouldn't have a Bav. Haven't looked at them for a year or two... maybe they've improved. But the last time I looked, the finish was poor, poor, poor.
As an example...and only an example... look at the inside of the heads door. A veneered finish. How long is that going to take water from the shower before is starts delaminating? Not long, I'll bet.
And that's just a small quick example. There are others. Just compare the chroming on a Bav to that on a Moody. The Moody's much thicker.
And the price.... it's just too low. OK, they'll be making savings on quantity... but not so much as allows them to keep the quality of materials up.
No... they're disposable boats in my opinion... Made mainly for the charter market I suspect. Five or ten years and then throw them away... if you can find anyone to take 'em!

[/ QUOTE ]

For the purpose of debate, what do you see as the significant differences between the Bav and your Beneteau?
 
Erm... the finish?
Don't get me wrong. I know the benny is not as good as a Moody or the like.. but I couldn't afford a Moody of the age I wanted, with the accomodation I wanted ..and all the other compromises you have to make.
 
There is a lot of rubbish talked on this forum about bav's and other AWB's.

Most of it is nonsense, and by people I can only presume have never helmed one in any decent wind. I took helm of yours in decreasing F8/F7, into a northerly heading back from Cherbourg to UK, and it only slammed twice, despite severe seas that saw us helping other boats back onto pontoon at 4 in morning who had tried to leave, and were rather poorly

We set off early am, and others finally left once you'd let them know we were OK
I was on the helm of your Bav for hours, and it felt fine.

The fact that weather forecasting that it would calm down, and it did, and we had flat seas and sun later, were not what was on our mind when we left. That boat handled everything thrown at it, and the couple of slams were probably due to me taking on helm of a 40' sailboat for the first time.
 
We are actually talking about a 33 ft boat.
I agree with Zefender that a lot of scare mongering has taken place re keels- seeing the same story re hashed several times in ever more dramatic tones.
I'm sure a 40 ft Bav will behave much better to windward than a 33, as the extra length allows a much better shaped forefoot allowing finer entry.
Swimming around the front of a 34 at anchor and seeing how shallow and wide the forefoot is before it actually contacts the water is explaination enough as to why it slams going to windward.
I agree with you, that at no time did we feel that the boat was in any danger (other than from mad French trawler skippers) in spite of some pretty atrocious weather, but the fact remained that the boat could not go very well to windward and slammed very badly.
 
I asked the same question at Ardfern the other year. Reason is that if you hit a rock (Scotland has lots of 'em) the keel damn near falls off and badly tweaks the interior. Mind you, the same seems to be true of many modern fin keelers. There was even a Swan in the yard with a lump out of its keel and seams showing at its root. Maybe that's why pilot books tell you where the rocks are.
 
I was responding to the fact that many portray all bav's and similar, as having similar characeristics. When in fact they don't. Can't respond to 33, but the fact remains, that keels don't fall off them, however much you and others dislike them.

No skin off my nose as I don't own one, but do get fed up of constant criticism, when they perform more than adequately.
 
I's agree completely with BrendanS above. We all know one gets what one pays for - and to scaremonger about keels falling off one Bav (out of 1,000's now sailing) is hadly a balanced view.
If anyone needs reminding there have been plenty of other 'quality' yachts with keel issues as a result of bad design - but one never hears those names quoted.
I also do not have a Bavaria - but have pals who do and they cruise / live on them.
As stated before - this one brand has assisted thousands of people to take up sailing becasue they chose to sell their vessels at a budget price.
And guys, lets not also forget they've kept other manufacturers honest by doing so .......for in order to sell their respective yachts many now price them at better value than they did 10 years ago!
For that we should all be thanking Bavaria - not knocking them.
Cheers
JOHN
 
I never said I dislike them. I think it is horses for courses.In fact my original post said it had been fine for two people living aboard in the Med for a year.
If you want a modestly priced 33 footer for the odd fair weather weekend and one or two fortnights holiday a year,(and a lot of people do) then one may be ideal. I would certainly prefer one to a Hunter Legend.

As you get into the bigger sizes the extra length allows hull forms that have better sea keeping qualities. In fact, the internal joinery on the 34 is the same as the36. The extra length gives better hull form and more stowage.My cousin has a Ben 476 and I think it's a gorgeous boat and excellent value for money (doubly so as he got it at the German Boat Show as a cancelled order deal). He was, for over 40 years, a died in the wool Westerly man who shuddered at the thought of owning French.
 
Seems I just missed You in Genoa (wensday oct.12). I was there to evaluate my next 39/40 footer (Oceanis, Cyclades, Hanse, X-Yachts, Elan and Bavaria).
Oceanis 393 unfortunatly was not on show, contrary to wat I was assured when taking R.V. before the visit
Cyclades 393 LOOKS very economical and has a lower Confort Ratio.
Hanse 400 had a very poor coachroof gelcoat finish, a weird /dangerous anchor place and not usable windlass place; nice interior though.
X40 very nice, engineered for racing and, therefore, expensive.
Elan (40 and Impression 384) good boats, not particularly expendive or cheap; problem seems to be the contract a buyer has to enter in, with the agent and not the maker, but this is common also to the others.
Bavaria has a good quality for the price, many things seem to have been thought before.It has a lot of small lockers inside that miss on other boats. The italian dealer seems profesional and serious.
All this, of course, IMHO.
A general consideration is the rip off for electronics: prices quoted for OEM (for all and any of the above mentioned makes) are at least twice those at "Raydirect.co.uk"(see my tread on PBO forum), so whatever I'll buy, I'll implement with the electronics (including through hull sensor): this can add to some 10.000 € difference )VHF DSC, Tridata, Chart Plotter, Radar, Autopilot) /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif.
Heating is a bit different, as the installation of the appropriate ducting (especially if air) can probably best be done at the yard.

Cheers,
Gianenrico
 
Gianenrico,

I was also a bit disappointed with the 393, the Jeanneaus looked very plain (and sturdy), didn't like the Hanse nav cum coffee table (even if the 29 was cute in green), and I prefer L kitchens and facing settees. In the end the only ones where the Dufour 34 (nice but a bit tight) and the Bav 37 which would need upgradeing but is cheap. In terms of substance the bavs don't seem IMHO to be missing anything, but maybe the build quality is a result of the "automation" so you could get squeaky furniture! The comments about keels falling off has become a joke! Most of my boaty friends here, in Italy now consider a 40' min for a cruiser, I'd like to be able to single hand but the opinion is 37 or 40 is the same deal, but I do have some reserves. Which boats did you like?

Can you save that much by post sales fittings!?! /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif What do reccomend as factory and what later? I would be interested to share your thoughts.

BB
 
You'll find that single handed sailing is easy on any size boat (within reason) Size is only a problem in the confines of a marina. I assume you won't be living in a marina so no problem there.
For that kind of money (or even half that) you could easily get a really well presented boat already adapted for live aboard with a decent inventory that won't depreciate quicker than a Virgin rail sandwich.
 
[ QUOTE ]
You'll find that single handed sailing is easy on any size boat (within reason) Size is only a problem in the confines of a marina. I assume you won't be living in a marina so no problem there.
For that kind of money (or even half that) you could easily get a really well presented boat already adapted for live aboard with a decent inventory that won't depreciate quicker than a Virgin rail sandwich.

[/ QUOTE ]
I do plan to live in a marina, actually! /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif
To be honest, I have been looking at the older boats, and there do seem to be some magnificent, well kitted out boats out there. When I can afford this baby, I'll certainly be looking at the second hand market.
 
[ QUOTE ]
I would certainly prefer one to a Hunter Legend.

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Why would you prefer one to a Legend? We have had a very good year with our Legend 36, which is a ton heavier than the Bav 36, much better finish below and sails generally better on all points of sail. We occasionally go sailing with friends of ours who own a Bav 36, and we generally manage to beat them (only just) back to the marina. Thats with our in-mast reefed main too, opposing their "proper" sails. As for living on board, the two don't compare. Even our Bav friends are envious of the Legend below decks.

I guess mine will slam a bit, being a fatty, but we don't mind that for the odd day where we have the forecast wrong, but for the other 364 days the comfort below is superb. I will be the first to admit to a bad choice if that's how it turns out, but we are very happy after one year and 1200 miles.

Pops
 
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