Battle of the heavyweight bilge keelers...

Seajet said:
Nicholas 123,

just to be clear, although the phrases are often used incorrectly, the proper definition of 'bilge keeler' is a boat with a central, possibly shallow central keel carrying the ballast, with side 'bilge plates' to keep her upright when drying.

Usually a recipe for incredible drag & poor perfomance, I'm not talking about racing just going anywhere !

The Trapper 500 /501, Mirage 28 etc are proper twin keelers, moulded with stubs to which iron streamlined shaped keels are bolted.
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Point taken Seajet, I stand corrected! It's twin keelers I'm looking for in future!
 
ghostlymoron said:
Mirage bilge keelers sail well, are solidly built and look pretty. Macwesters on the other hand look like old fashioned tubs and sail like them. (The small bilge keels are flat plates and do not generate any lift and are poor at resisting leeway - you'll sail much closer to the wind with a Mirage)
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The keels are not flat plates, that is where the ballast is located and they do generate lift due to the shape; however, because the keels are not deep, there is less resistance and more leeway; on the other hand, in rough weather, this is an advantage as it slips on the "surface" through the water sideways, rather than resisting the windward force causing the boat to heel uncontrollably.
 
Tranona said:
Have a look at the OP's requirements. Also look at Ken Endean's many articles in PBO and then make an assessment of the capability of the boat.
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The OP just mentions a bilge keeler & in my experience with one that only drew about 2' it went sideways about as much as forward in a wind over tide situation.I am now looking for another bilge keeler but it will be about as deep drafted as I can get in my mooring.
A Sabre is on my list but a real sailing comparison with others in the field would be very beneficial.
 
Seajet said:
Nicholas 123,

just to be clear, although the phrases are often used incorrectly, the proper definition of 'bilge keeler' is a boat with a central, possibly shallow central keel carrying the ballast, with side 'bilge plates' to keep her upright when drying.

Usually a recipe for incredible drag & poor perfomance, I'm not talking about racing just going anywhere !

The Trapper 500 /501, Mirage 28 etc are proper twin keelers, moulded with stubs to which iron streamlined shaped keels are bolted.
Click to expand...

I did'nt know that Trapper 500's have a dedicated bilge keel version,if so I shall certainly take a look.
I don't need you to patronize me when it comes to bilge keelers I have had one for a considerable period of time & have had some absolutely priceless experiences with her.Sometimes it ai'nt just about windward performance.I shall resist the temptation to slag of that boat of yours which you think the world revolves around ;)
 
CAPTAIN FANTASTIC said:
The keels are not flat plates, that is where the ballast is located and they do generate lift due to the shape; however, because the keels are not deep, there is less resistance and more leeway; on the other hand, in rough weather, this is an advantage as it slips on the "surface" through the water sideways, rather than resisting the windward force causing the boat to heel uncontrollably.
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You could always try reefing ;)
 
CAPTAIN FANTASTIC said:
The keels are not flat plates, that is where the ballast is located and they do generate lift due to the shape; however, because the keels are not deep, there is less resistance and more leeway; on the other hand, in rough weather, this is an advantage as it slips on the "surface" through the water sideways, rather than resisting the windward force causing the boat to heel uncontrollably.
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I can't see that sailing sideways is an advantage. :(
 
Nicholas123 said:
I did'nt know that Trapper 500's have a dedicated bilge keel version,if so I shall certainly take a look.
I don't need you to patronize me when it comes to bilge keelers I have had one for a considerable period of time & have had some absolutely priceless experiences with her.Sometimes it ai'nt just about windward performance.I shall resist the temptation to slag of that boat of yours which you think the world revolves around ;)
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I was explaining, not patronising; it seemed worthwhile pointing out the distinction between the 2 design types, as usual people were saying 'bilge' when meaning 'twin'.

I have sailed a Trapper 501 twin keeler in about F5-6, she went - and behaved - very well; personally I think they are a bit of a 'well kept secret', and should command relatively higher prices - if I was looking for this sort of boat the 501 would be first on my list.

th_Trapper5001.jpg


Having trouble resizing, but if one can make anything out, I'd mention that the 501 interior was much more attractive, all oiled teak veneer.

And no I don't have one or a friend selling one !
 
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once shared a Macwester 27 with a mate did a lot of work to her she sold for about 5k and we went all over in her we did holland twice and up to Amble, she looked after us in some real bad weather but we did more motor sailinng than sailing after being at work all week we liked the engine off, she was comfortable and dry and we got a lot plesure from her
 
Mirage 2700 too-

James W said:
I like the price of the Macwester, it's solid and seaworthy, but the Mirage certainly looks like it would be faster. Has anyone experience of the Mirage?
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Hi-
Three years with Magna, my pedestrian but much lover Macwester 26'.

After viewing Mirage 26's and 28', just bought a Mirage 2700, even less info about them but I'm hoping she'll be faster..

Explaining to a non boaty friend- 'It's like selling a Mk II Cortina and buying a Sierra...)

On the hard at the moment so looking forward to sailing her.

Nick (Rivendell)
 
Seajet said:
I was explaining, not patronising; it seemed worthwhile pointing out the distinction between the 2 design types, as usual people were saying 'bilge' when meaning 'twin'.

I have sailed a Trapper 501 twin keeler in about F5-6, she went - and behaved - very well; personally I think they are a bit of a 'well kept secret', and should command relatively higher prices - if I was looking for this sort of boat the 501 would be first on my list.

th_Trapper5001.jpg


Having trouble resizing, but if one can make anything out, I'd mention that the 501 interior was much more attractive, all oiled teak veneer.

And no I don't have one or a friend selling one !
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Watch out for soft coachroof / decks, especially near the mast and stanchions with Trapper 500/501.

That put me off, and I got a Leisure 27 (but fin, as I couldn't find a bilge keeler at the time).

£10k budget is a lot light for a good quality L27.
 
Comrade Red said:
Watch out for soft coachroof / decks, especially near the mast and stanchions with Trapper 500/501.

That put me off, and I got a Leisure 27 (but fin, as I couldn't find a bilge keeler at the time).

£10k budget is a lot light for a good quality L27.
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I've actually seen an L27 for just a smidge above 10K :D. She is a lovely looking boat, just seeing what else might be out there....
 
If were going into the trapper Price range I would much prefer a hunter. Although I'm very biased owning one. But my reasons are not biased. The hunter horizons have a proper chart table, well at least for sub 30 foot (i know its still rear facing)
The galley is a lot more user friendly, coolbox, sink, oven and Hob all in the right places.
The aft quarter berth is almost double but not quite there, more like a kingsized single. Instead of a tunnel on the trapper.

Now above decks, the trapper looks great! Much wider side decks, two cockpit lockers either side, mainsheet traveler in the right place.

Not going to comment on sailing performance as I'm going on photos.
 
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