Battery experts? , Enduroline Batteries?

Adrian

Adrian

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Joined
8 Jun 2001
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841
Location
Me Midlands, Boat Port Grimaud SOF
www.kydproducts.co.uk
I'm in the market for a new deep cycle battery, the current one is a Varta LFD75. Looking on the Internet I came across the Enduroline EXV100 ( http://www.tayna.co.uk/EXV100-Enduroline-Leisure-Battery-P8705.html ), its exactly the same case size which is important as it fits snugly in its box and its a comparable price but 100Ah rather than 75Ah.

A local battery "Specialist" has told me that its impossible to get 100Ah out of a case that size and what ever it says on the label it will be a 75Ah battery.

Does this sound right? Is there a limit to the Ah you can get from a certain size battery or is he just trying to get me to buy his Varta battery?
 
I've no compelling answer to your Specialist's view, although I'd doubt he's correct. What I'm more confident about is that the EXV100 is in no material sense 'deep cycle' (just like pretty-much any other 'leisure' battery).
 
macd said:
I've no compelling answer to your Specialist's view, although I'd doubt he's correct. What I'm more confident about is that the EXV100 is in no material sense 'deep cycle' (just like pretty-much any other 'leisure' battery).
Click to expand...

Absolutely. 700CCA out of a 100Ah battery suggests quite the opposite.
 
Adrian said:
I'm in the market for a new deep cycle battery, the current one is a Varta LFD75. Looking on the Internet I came across the Enduroline EXV100 ( http://www.tayna.co.uk/EXV100-Enduroline-Leisure-Battery-P8705.html ), its exactly the same case size which is important as it fits snugly in its box and its a comparable price but 100Ah rather than 75Ah.

A local battery "Specialist" has told me that its impossible to get 100Ah out of a case that size and what ever it says on the label it will be a 75Ah battery.

Does this sound right? Is there a limit to the Ah you can get from a certain size battery or is he just trying to get me to buy his Varta battery?
Click to expand...

They are not deep cycle batteries, neither of them.

The high capacity and CCA of the Enduroline battery , if true, will have been achieved by using an increased number of thinner plates. This is exactly the opposite of what you want for deep cycling!

For a house battery, if you cannot fit a true deep cycle battery and are left with a leisure battery as your only choice then IMO the Varta is likely to be the better bet.

It would be interesting to compare the weights but I dont think Tayna quote them


Wait for Plevier to answer. He is the resident battery expert
 
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Adrian said:
Excuse my ignorance!

So am I better buying the Varta or are they equally poor?
Click to expand...

As Vic wrote, the Varta is probably a better-made battery (although, as sailorman wrote, there's so much cross-branding, re-labelling (and hogwash marketing descriptions) that it's often difficult to tell).

The other issue is fitness for purpose. A domestic battery, which seems to be what you want, is not expected to delivery huge ampage (the CCA Jumbleduck mentioned) but to robustly handle the sort of smaller drains that your domestic equpment place on it. You might get better advice on this if you describe your current set-up: how many batteries of each type, Ah capacity, etc. High-quality (genuine) deep-cycle batteries need not be hugely expensive, as you can see from this current thread: http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?424737-Trojan-batteries

If nothing else, reading that thread will increase your knowledge. It did mine ;)
 
macd said:
As Vic wrote, the Varta is probably a better-made battery (although, as sailorman wrote, there's so much cross-branding, re-labelling (and hogwash marketing descriptions) that it's often difficult to tell).

The other issue is fitness for purpose. A domestic battery, which seems to be what you want, is not expected to delivery huge ampage (the CCA Jumbleduck mentioned) but to robustly handle the sort of smaller drains that your domestic equpment place on it. You might get better advice on this if you describe your current set-up: how many batteries of each type, Ah capacity, etc. High-quality (genuine) deep-cycle batteries need not be hugely expensive, as you can see from this current thread: http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?424737-Trojan-batteries

If nothing else, reading that thread will increase your knowledge. It did mine ;)
Click to expand...
Hankook are re badging now

http://www.batterymegastore.co.uk/product/MFDC27/
 
Adrian said:
So am I better buying the Varta or are they equally poor?
Click to expand...

Of the two you've mentioned, I'd buy the Varta. Better brand, good support, lots of online information.

But you started out saying you wanted a "deep cycle" battery, in which case there are better alternatives. Sticking with the same physical size, Varta offer a couple of possibly interesting options. Firstly, the LA70 which is a "dual purpose" AGM battery. It should give you about twice as many cycles to 50% depth-of-discharge than your old LFD75. Secondly, the LAD60B which is a deep cycle AGM offering around 4 times as many cycles as your old LFD75. With either of these, you'll need to check that your charging arrangements are suitable for AGM. A big advantage of AGM batteries is that they accept recharge very easily, so putting those amp-hours back may be quicker.

There's a cost implication. The LA70 costs around £120 versus £75 for a replacement LFD75, but should have twice the life. The LA60B costs around £150, but should last 4 times as long. The LA60B has a slightly smaller Ah rating.
 
pvb said:
Of the two you've mentioned, I'd buy the Varta. Better brand, good support, lots of online information.

But you started out saying you wanted a "deep cycle" battery, in which case there are better alternatives. Sticking with the same physical size, Varta offer a couple of possibly interesting options. Firstly, the LA70 which is a "dual purpose" AGM battery. It should give you about twice as many cycles to 50% depth-of-discharge than your old LFD75. Secondly, the LAD60B which is a deep cycle AGM offering around 4 times as many cycles as your old LFD75. With either of these, you'll need to check that your charging arrangements are suitable for AGM. A big advantage of AGM batteries is that they accept recharge very easily, so putting those amp-hours back may be quicker.

There's a cost implication. The LA70 costs around £120 versus £75 for a replacement LFD75, but should have twice the life. The LA60B costs around £150, but should last 4 times as long. The LA60B has a slightly smaller Ah rating.
Click to expand...

Some good choices there.

I should have put you on the case when I bought my battery a couple of years ago.
 
You may find the battery is rated 100Ah but is not rated in the same way................hence a "certain" battery is rated and advertised at the European standard at 135ah but is in fact a 115ah UK ...check the small print of the battery ratings and press the supplier to confirm they are rated in the same way.

I have recently been through this...
 
Sundowner 39 said:
You may find the battery is rated 100Ah but is not rated in the same way................hence a "certain" battery is rated and advertised at the European standard at 135ah but is in fact a 115ah UK ...check the small print of the battery ratings and press the supplier to confirm they are rated in the same way.

I have recently been through this...
Click to expand...

Tayna are the only suppliers i can find for Enduroline batteries. Own brand or what?

They do not qualify the Ah figure on these or any others on the website.
 
Garry & June 'Friendship' said:
having spent quite a lot of time researching this subject I soon came to the conclusion that as with a lot of things in life, with batteries you very much 'get what you pay for' !
Click to expand...

Very often true!
The Varta is probably better and its claimed capacity probably more realistic but as already said by several posters, none of these is really a deep cycle battery. Even Varta is only a brand name now not the real first class company it used to be.
The UK market these days seems particularly prone to downright dishonest claims by distributors.
My batteries are badged Alphaline and are called deep cycle by the distributor, but the manufacturer of them (AtlasBX in Korea) says they are starter batteries OK for the occasional discharge.
If you really want a deep cycle battery, Trojan T105 or an equivalent is probably the lowest cost solution (per Ah).
Weight is a pretty good quality indicator - nobody has found a lightweight substitute for lead yet. If A's 125Ah battery is lighter than B's 100Ah battery - be suspicious of A. Nobody understates their capacity.
There's an unusual level of unanimity in responses to this thread!
 
Adrian said:
"With either of these, you'll need to check that your charging arrangements are suitable for AGM"

What sort of things do i need to check?
Click to expand...

AGMs accept more rapid charging (higher amps) than flooded batteries, but are sensitive to overcharging and the voltage regime needs to be suitable. So the 'arrangements' at issue are any charge controllers linked to your engine alternator, and your boat's battery charger. If these are basic, they may not be suitable for AGMs (but can be made so by spending more £). If more sophisticated, their literature will tell you what to do (often a case of simply flipping dip-switches).
 
Plevier said:
Very often true!
The Varta is probably better and its claimed capacity probably more realistic but as already said by several posters, none of these is really a deep cycle battery. Even Varta is only a brand name now not the real first class company it used to be.
The UK market these days seems particularly prone to downright dishonest claims by distributors.
My batteries are badged Alphaline and are called deep cycle by the distributor, but the manufacturer of them (AtlasBX in Korea) says they are starter batteries OK for the occasional discharge.
If you really want a deep cycle battery, Trojan T105 or an equivalent is probably the lowest cost solution (per Ah).
Weight is a pretty good quality indicator - nobody has found a lightweight substitute for lead yet. If A's 125Ah battery is lighter than B's 100Ah battery - be suspicious of A. Nobody understates their capacity.
There's an unusual level of unanimity in responses to this thread!
Click to expand...
http://www.atlasbx.co.kr/eng/product/product_list/Product_View_SC.do

[h=1]
automotive_visual.jpg
[/h]


GetImgVw

​
Link to your life
MARINE & RV : Starting & Cycling

  • Application
    - Recreational Vehicle & Auxiliary Capability
    - Uninterrupted Power Supply (UPS)
    - Solar & Audio



[TABLE="class: proViewTList, width: 665"]
[TR]
[TH="bgcolor: #E9E9E9"]Group No.[/TH]
[TH="bgcolor: #E9E9E9"]Type No.[/TH]
[TH="bgcolor: #E9E9E9"]C20 (AH)[/TH]
[TH="bgcolor: #E9E9E9"]CCA
(0ºF/-18ºC)[/TH]
[TH="bgcolor: #E9E9E9"]RC(Min)[/TH]
[TH="bgcolor: #E9E9E9, colspan: 4"]Dimension(mm)[/TH]
[TH="bgcolor: #E9E9E9"]Layout[/TH]
[TH="bgcolor: #E9E9E9"]Terminal[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH="bgcolor: #E9E9E9"]L[/TH]
[TH="bgcolor: #E9E9E9"]W[/TH]
[TH="bgcolor: #E9E9E9"]H[/TH]
[TH="bgcolor: #E9E9E9"]TH[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]24[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]DC24MF[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]80[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]680[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]140[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]257[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]172[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]200[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]220[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]Fig.1[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]MARINE TWIN[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: bgon, bgcolor: #E8EFF7, align: center"]27[/TD]
[TD="class: bgon, bgcolor: #E8EFF7, align: center"]DC27MF[/TD]
[TD="class: bgon, bgcolor: #E8EFF7, align: center"]90[/TD]
[TD="class: bgon, bgcolor: #E8EFF7, align: center"]750[/TD]
[TD="class: bgon, bgcolor: #E8EFF7, align: center"]170[/TD]
[TD="class: bgon, bgcolor: #E8EFF7, align: center"]302[/TD]
[TD="class: bgon, bgcolor: #E8EFF7, align: center"]172[/TD]
[TD="class: bgon, bgcolor: #E8EFF7, align: center"]200[/TD]
[TD="class: bgon, bgcolor: #E8EFF7, align: center"]220[/TD]
[TD="class: bgon, bgcolor: #E8EFF7, align: center"]Fig.1[/TD]
[TD="class: bgon, bgcolor: #E8EFF7, align: center"]MARINE TWIN[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]31[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]DC31MF[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]100[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]800[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]180[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]330[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]172[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]218[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]242[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]Fig.3[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]MARINE TWIN[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
 
sailorman said:
http://www.atlasbx.co.kr/eng/product/product_list/Product_View_SC.do

automotive_visual.jpg





Link to your life
MARINE & RV : Starting & Cycling

  • Application
    - Recreational Vehicle & Auxiliary Capability
    - Uninterrupted Power Supply (UPS)
    - Solar & Audio



[TABLE="class: proViewTList, width: 665"]
[TR]
[TH="bgcolor: #E9E9E9"]Group No.[/TH]
[TH="bgcolor: #E9E9E9"]Type No.[/TH]
[TH="bgcolor: #E9E9E9"]C20 (AH)[/TH]
[TH="bgcolor: #E9E9E9"]CCA
(0ºF/-18ºC)[/TH]
[TH="bgcolor: #E9E9E9"]RC(Min)[/TH]
[TH="bgcolor: #E9E9E9, colspan: 4"]Dimension(mm)[/TH]
[TH="bgcolor: #E9E9E9"]Layout[/TH]
[TH="bgcolor: #E9E9E9"]Terminal[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH="bgcolor: #E9E9E9"]L[/TH]
[TH="bgcolor: #E9E9E9"]W[/TH]
[TH="bgcolor: #E9E9E9"]H[/TH]
[TH="bgcolor: #E9E9E9"]TH[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]24[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]DC24MF[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]80[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]680[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]140[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]257[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]172[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]200[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]220[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]Fig.1[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]MARINE TWIN[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: bgon, bgcolor: #E8EFF7, align: center"]27[/TD]
[TD="class: bgon, bgcolor: #E8EFF7, align: center"]DC27MF[/TD]
[TD="class: bgon, bgcolor: #E8EFF7, align: center"]90[/TD]
[TD="class: bgon, bgcolor: #E8EFF7, align: center"]750[/TD]
[TD="class: bgon, bgcolor: #E8EFF7, align: center"]170[/TD]
[TD="class: bgon, bgcolor: #E8EFF7, align: center"]302[/TD]
[TD="class: bgon, bgcolor: #E8EFF7, align: center"]172[/TD]
[TD="class: bgon, bgcolor: #E8EFF7, align: center"]200[/TD]
[TD="class: bgon, bgcolor: #E8EFF7, align: center"]220[/TD]
[TD="class: bgon, bgcolor: #E8EFF7, align: center"]Fig.1[/TD]
[TD="class: bgon, bgcolor: #E8EFF7, align: center"]MARINE TWIN[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]31[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]DC31MF[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]100[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]800[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]180[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]330[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]172[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]218[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]242[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]Fig.3[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]MARINE TWIN[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
Click to expand...

Yes AtlasBX claim the DC as a "starting and cycling battery" but the UK distributor also advertises the XV series as deep cycle when AtlasBX list it as a starting battery with "auxiliary capability". That is not deep cycle!

On p4 of their marine catalogue http://www.atlasbx.co.kr/eng/custom...ealnm=E-NEX(2015).pdf&convnm=E-NEX(2015)1.pdf AtlasBX describe the XDC range as "deep cycle and starting" (but I don't think I've seen the XDC range being offered here), the DC range as "dual purpose (starting and cycling)" and the XV range as "marine starting". No ambiguity there. However in UK DC and XV are both offered as "deep cycle" by AtlasBX's official distributor.

I'm not criticising AtlasBX. I bought the Alphaline because it was the only own label brand where I could identify the real manufacturer as a company with some substance and history. The batteries appear well made, I have no idea of life yet, but I'm anticipating 3-5 years of light use. Unfortunately a height restriction means I could only use the XV110, no DC alternative. Ironically, the XV110 isn't in AtlasBX's catalogue so may not be made by them after all :-( it may just be Batt Mega labelling product from someone else depending on the terms of their agreement with AtlasBX.

My beef is with UK distributors making totally false claims.

It could be that visually identical batteries such as Enduroline also come form AtlasBX, I don't know. However you can't assume it because the containers are normally not company specific but open market standards.

Edit - I've just found a cycle life graph from AtlasBX. At 50% DoD they claim about 100 cycles for the DC series, 400 for the XDC. No curve shown for the XV series. For comparison a Trojan T105 is about 1200 cycles isn't it?
 
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