Battery economics?

[Mikedefieslife]

Indeed. These are the ones you need http://www.sunbeamsystem.com/en/smart-l-i-t-h-i-u-m-2/

Quick charging, high current, no special charger needed, can be discharged to zero without any deleterious effect and have a huge life cycle.

At the moment only 100Ah max but rather than 3 x 200Ah, I could use 3 x 100Ah to get the same capacity. However, they are not cheap so I'm still undecided but they can be used in parallel with lead acid so I might phase them in.

Richard

Seems none of their distributors are actually selling these batteries. I was curious re the prices vs something like Relion

 

[dgadee]

What got me thinking of lithium was Charles Sterling on YouTube:

https://youtu.be/jR34QF3xcCc

Any comment on his assertion?

 

[lpdsn]

Served up Peruvian style or turned into pate as in the Camomile Lawn?

That depends upon the failure mode of the batteries.

 

[lpdsn]

What got me thinking of lithium was Charles Sterling on YouTube:

https://youtu.be/jR34QF3xcCc

Any comment on his assertion?

As he says himself, it depends upon the cycle. Do you cycle your batteries like that?

 

[Sailingsaves]

What got me thinking of lithium was Charles Sterling on YouTube:

https://youtu.be/jR34QF3xcCc

Any comment on his assertion?

Yes.

Interesting video.

Conclusions:
If you are rich, don't want to have the hassle of spending time looking after batteries and / or have limited space, go for Lithium Iron (not lithium ion) battery. (I think he said £1000 for a 117Ah one as opposed to £100 for the lead acid battery with less Ah.

If you don't have a lot of money, but have the knowledge and time to look after your batteries, maybe better to go with lead acid. As he said, if you only discharge a lead acid (or bank of them) to 10% and then recharge, it will last many more cycles.

Remember he said his video demonstrated a twit using the batteries (or words to that effect) and the results were what a twit would achieve. He said if one looked after the lead acid it would have a better curve on the graph.

AGM are better than lead, exampled by a car I just bought. Sitting for one year untouched. Large AGM battery at 5 Volts !!!

I took it home for scrap, but then fiddled with it as I do and it is now starting the 1.9L diesel without fail regularly (but it is summer time). I was surprised.

So I say, just look after your batteries whatever they are and they will look after you.

 

[lw395]

There are a lot of lithium batteries out there claiming to be equivalent to a certain Ah of Lead-Acid, but with actually a lot less capacity.
For instance, for my bike, they offer a lithium battery of 4ah instead of 12. It's more than equivalent in terms of starting amps.
Not all lead-acid are the same, not all lithium are the same.

 

[Pete7]

You can achieve that in part by using an AGM start battery such as a Red Flash 1100 which can be installed anywhere in any orientation so freeing up space for bigger house bank.

True, but they are now £190 each so refused to replace like for like and went for a sealed lead acid at a 1/3rd of the price.

 

[Mikedefieslife]

There are a lot of lithium batteries out there claiming to be equivalent to a certain Ah of Lead-Acid, but with actually a lot less capacity.
For instance, for my bike, they offer a lithium battery of 4ah instead of 12. It's more than equivalent in terms of starting amps.
Not all lead-acid are the same, not all lithium are the same.

Yes starter batteries for bikes/cars seems to include and equivalency rating that means bugger all. Proper LiFePo4 leisure batteries like Relion and the like don't do that. They list the actual 20 hour rating of the battery.

 

[Sailingsaves]

Well I have bought a £50 one to test.
It has an outlet of 12v and 10Amps and it has the crocodile outlets. BUT they have a device betwixt the clips and power pack that I think 'looks' for a voltage, so the pack cannot give out the 12v 300Amp (not sure if that is a 20 hour measurement etc) as it stands.

But with a bit of tinkering, it may.

For a small boat with few electronics such as mine, it may be a cheap, small option (that can reside at head height in case of flooding).

Time will tell.

 

[Graham376]

I don't read newspapers, what fires occurred with Li-ion or was it Lithium polymers?

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-lithium-ion-batteries-grounded-the-dreamliner/

 

[Tranona]

True, but they are now £190 each so refused to replace like for like and went for a sealed lead acid at a 1/3rd of the price.

The one in my Morgan is just starting its 16th year. A bit smaller than the 1100 so only £140 but a bargain. Usage pattern a bit like a boat. Spends most of its time idle in the garage with the occasional hard run. Trickle charger on if left more than a month without use.