Bargain, or money pit?

bendyone

bendyone

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https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TARQUIN-...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

As a long term possible plan I have been on the lookout for a boat, Princess 412, Broom 37 type with knackered engines. Plan would be to remove old large engines and replace with a pair of new 50HP for canal use in France.
Big boat, plenty of space, small economical new engines should see me out. Dont really care about the loss of value of the boat in 10 years time.
Boat above a little bigger than I considered but price may be good.
Any thoughts?
 
Personally I think this would be a financial disaster.

The cost of removal, new engines, amendments to ancillaries - water heating. shaft cooling helm cluster ( RPM, oil temp, ignition switches), making the gearbox fit / connect to shaft, engine mounts etc will be considerable.

And what do you have at the end? I would imagine a boat that is unsalable. There will then be a thread on here. Looking at buying a boat with 50hp engines, what is the cost of refitting the originals!

The clue is that the seller has spent £60k and even with the right engines it is worth £15k!
 
There are examples of some of those boats that were built with smaller engines, usually for hire fleets. For instance we have a Broom 37 Continental with a single perkins 4236 with about 70hp. Boat reaches its hull speed easily and is actually very easy to handle. Could be improved with a bowthruster ideally. Better still there are examples of the Crown 37 that are similarly powered and these are a better layout / build than the older Continental.

A sistership to ours is was moved (on her own keel) from Ireland to UK and then to france and has been in the canal system for ~15yrs. I would say that the old Gent who took her there is no longer with us. It was the 2nd time he had taken a boat over, the first was a heavily modified Seamaster 30 with a single 80hp ford. Both boats were ex-hire cruisers from the Shannon navigation.
 
As you have factored in engine replacement and dont care about resale then what you are looking at is hull value and for a 1979 boat that has been vinyl wrapped to hide a multitude of sins I dont think it's a bargain at all. I've seen enough cruisers sans engines from very well known makes in the size and age (1980's) range you are looking at and none were up for grabs for more than 12k and their interiors looked a lot nicer!
 
+1 keep looking - replacing the engines would be a seriously bad idea. Putting in significantly smaller engines will upset the boats' ballast and ride height too.
as the owner has paid for much of the work to be done he/she may not know how good that work has been so definitely caveat emptor! Dubious interior aside it may actually be OK, the engines look like they have had new turbos - but unless you are suitably qualified I would steer well clear of this one. If the engine has had new turbos, it probably also needs heat exchangers cleaning out and fresh fuel injectors. I would rather see a more original but well looked after boat, at least then you have a better idea what you are buying and if there is an issue another owner may well be able to help/point in the right direction. If you have a budget and a loose spec someone on here may know of such a vessel that would do what you want with less risk.

edit: would it better to buy in France? ex hire boat or similar if thats all you want to do. If you buy in the UK its going cost a fair bit just to get it to France either sailing or trucking.
 
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Nothing wrong with your original plan of buying an older spacious boat for use on the French canals, but the original engines will be frugal enough on tick over, without having the cost and pain with putting new ones in. As for the eBay basket case, don't bother. I would say it has close to zero value, and more hassle that you could ever imagine.
 
That hull will be crap at low canal speeds.

The stern gear will be too heavy, will tend to stall the engines going into gear.

I'm up for a project, but that's a step too far.

For any given speed, small engines or big engines = same amount of work = same fuel burn.
 
jrudge said:
Personally I think this would be a financial disaster.

The cost of removal, new engines, amendments to ancillaries - water heating. shaft cooling helm cluster ( RPM, oil temp, ignition switches), making the gearbox fit / connect to shaft, engine mounts etc will be considerable.

And what do you have at the end? I would imagine a boat that is unsalable. There will then be a thread on here. Looking at buying a boat with 50hp engines, what is the cost of refitting the originals!

The clue is that the seller has spent £60k and even with the right engines it is worth £15k!
Click to expand...

The OP said he did not care about resale value. He wants to live on it. Not all things are bought as an investment or with a view to getting anything back
 
bendyone said:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TARQUIN-...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

As a long term possible plan I have been on the lookout for a boat, Princess 412, Broom 37 type with knackered engines. Plan would be to remove old large engines and replace with a pair of new 50HP for canal use in France.
Big boat, plenty of space, small economical new engines should see me out. Dont really care about the loss of value of the boat in 10 years time.
Boat above a little bigger than I considered but price may be good.
Any thoughts?
Click to expand...

Twin engines/props hanging down under the stern are a bad choice for canal work, especially in France where you will have to pull in close to the bank to let traffic pass you by.

A big'ish single cummins would give you good low speed performance and offshore semi-displ. and cheap to buy reconditioned from the Cummins factory in Mexico.
 
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**

I'd go you halves, if the boat checked out. I like the interior. I like the idea. But would prefer to keep the engines, if they worked. Canal boats all have heaps of bumpers. I'm in the middle of a repurpose myself. It can be ... unexpected.

However, i might be a buyer for one of your Volvo's, if you're thinking of changing them out. :)
 
BruceK said:
As you have factored in engine replacement and dont care about resale then what you are looking at is hull value and for a 1979 boat that has been vinyl wrapped to hide a multitude of sins I dont think it's a bargain at all. I've seen enough cruisers sans engines from very well known makes in the size and age (1980's) range you are looking at and none were up for grabs for more than 12k and their interiors looked a lot nicer!
Click to expand...

Vinyl wrap puts me off, too many bumps in a canal system for that.
 
Capital_R said:
**

I'd go you halves, if the boat checked out. I like the interior. I like the idea. But would prefer to keep the engines, if they worked. Canal boats all have heaps of bumpers. I'm in the middle of a repurpose myself. It can be ... unexpected.

However, i might be a buyer for one of your Volvo's, if you're thinking of changing them out. :)
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Dont know how easy to get the engines out. Apparently the electrics to the engine have been removed. What are old unknown engines worth?
 
bendyone said:
Dont know how easy to get the engines out. Apparently the electrics to the engine have been removed. What are old unknown engines worth?
Click to expand...

Quotes I got to replace mine, were €3,500 - €6,000 secondhand, which seemed like a steal...! My old one was a 571 Volvo/Chevrolet petrol, but would prefer a diesel...... Except for the sound of the Hemi..!
 
bendyone said:
Thanks for that, looking for something big old and cheap!
Click to expand...

Thinking on this some more (because it is something that I would like to also do someday) something like a princess 412 will not fit down most of the French canals, the air draft being the problem. In or around 3.45m air draft is the reasonable max and there are some stretches even lower than that.

That restricts your choice to aft cabin types like Broom 37's and Deck saloon types like the mk1 Princess 37. These two offer a lot of boat for little money but the engines will be old and obtaining parts difficult. Broom 37 types will predominantly fitted with Perkins HT6354's which are probably coming to the end of their service life, do a search on the forum for more info. Any cheap Broom 37 with these engines will have suspect reliability imo. In that case however, these might offer an opportunity for an engine swap if the boat can be bought cheaply. The types of engines that you might fit in place of the perkins (they'll need to be compact, theres not much room) are possible to obtain secondhand for reasonable money - twin non-turbo engines of 60hp+ each would do. That would give you a very serviceable, comfortable boat that would give admirable service inland and for coastal passages, don't worry about resale, i'll buy it off you when you're done ;-).
 
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