Bargain med boating, latest news

[petem]

See also my previous T37/Cranchi 39 post.

Now have two people possibly interested.

This could potentially be fab value for money. For your £250pm (£3000 pa) you'd get at least 10 days use during the summer holidays plus a week at whitsun or easter or october half term plus a few additional weeks/weekends.

Am waiting for JFM to give me a call to discuss pro's and con's of boat sharing.

Just a but more interest and we can start to think about a recce!

I can smell the diesel fumes already!

Pete

 

[tcm]

Re: The jfm boat-sharers evaluation system

1. I wd be cautious about people borowing money against the boat - sounds like you have taken precautions about this, so no prob.

2. Wherever your boat is based, don't have that flag. So, a uk flag in france or spain is ace. Cos otherwise nasty luxury taxes. But anyway, you'll have to reflag a foreign flagged boat -you aren't allowed to own a french flagged boat for example if your a nasty foreigner, and sod that EU crap. Praps look for a UK flaged boat with good title.

3. On yr recce, get a stack of leaflets with your name and number onnem saying you want to buy a boat.

4. I have a mate who will sell a 98 targa 43 for 170k. Needs a good clean, otherwise seems sound, probly 3-400 hrs. White hull green interior 2 cabins with tender.

5. Jfm tells me that you must make sure that your sharers are Ok For A Few Quid. Ready for if the boat needs fixing up a bit, which will be Expensive cos you ain't within 500 miles. To test this, apparently, you have to go the restaurant or pub and buy a load of drinks for them, and then see if they get a load of drinks too, in return. And also the other potential sharer has to buy lots and lots more drinks too, and to hell with the cost. Myself, I think I may have passed this test on fifteen seperate occassions, but am not quite sure. I understand that he misguidedly started the test also with Coliholic, who called the hospital cos after all the drinks jfm seemed unable to assist with the second tin of shortbread.

Hope this helps. PM me if T43 of interest. 170k is bottom buck, no more offers i believe.

 

[Renegade_Master]

Where abouts in the Med do you want to berth the boat Pete

 

[petem]

Am flexible. Have been to north of Majorca recently and liked it there (i.e. Puerto Pollensa/Alcudia). Have heard that there other decent marinas on Majorca/Ibiza. Would also consder SofF although it's a long time since I was down there (will ask TCM for info).

Primary considerations for choice of marina are:-
1) Must be accessible by cheapo flights from UK
2) Must be close (i.e. within 60mins) to airport at the other end.

I'd also take into account where the boat was purchased from. E.g. if currently lying in Ibiza then spend a season there before moving on. Particularly if stock purchase from a dealer.

Also need to consider availability of berths. No good wanting to park it somewhere if there's a 10 year waiting list.

Have also heard that it may be easier to buy a berth than rent one.

 

[Renegade_Master]

Berths in Mallorca very difficult to get and would be expensive if you do. I tried Pollensa & Alcudia couple of years ago no could do.
Try Costa Del Sol cheap easyjet flights to Malaga plenty of marinas more availability. Cheap fuel etc in Gib

 

[petem]

I checked triangleberthbrokers.com and there's a 12m berth for sale in Club de Mar for £42,000 with a 20 year lease. Don't know what the service charge is.

 

[Renegade_Master]

Gosh big bucks I got a 12m rental berth on Costa Del Sol for less then £3k PA

 

[petem]

Surely 20 year repayment mortgage on £50k is around £3k pa?

 

[tcm]

Re: club de mar

sounds pretty good 42k imho! Note: there are almost no more berths being built of this size, anywhere, cept blimmin eastern med. Also, the 42 k will increase in value imho till for least a little while, and anyway divvied by 20 = erm 2.1k per year, likely near 3.5-4k pa now, allow for doubling of annual rental in 10 years makes this a bargain?

club de mar is also fine for taxis into town, and lager in the club. Say hi to bruce!

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Fairline will rent you a berth in Cala d'Or for the extremely reasonable sum of about £10k pa for a 45 footer (gulp). As you say, berths on the mainland are a lot cheaper, maybe £3k pa around Alicante.

 

[jfm]

boat share experiences.....

Petem:
Sorry for slow reply, been busy. I know you PMed me but if ok by you I prefer to reply here becos of general boaty interest to the board. In no particular order.....

1. I have had 2 boat shares, raggie and motor. Currently (since 1999) a fairline P42. Was Lymington, now SofF.

2. I have found it very successful. The reason is that the two chaps I share with are two 1000% decent and honest and care about the boat and not in the least moaners or cheapskates or any other such thing. THIS IS CRUCIAL. It matters much more than anything else imho. They were not friends of mine before the boat, we only know each other because of the boat syndicate. I suppose this is better, not really thort about it.....

3. We have a legal agreement based on the RYA one but we have never ever resorted to it. This is important too. These agreements are usually cr@p, including the RYA one imho. A good lawyer could run rings round them. Generally such agreements say "this shall happen and that shall happen", but with a boat share what you care about is your remedy if those things dont happen. And the legal agreements (including RYA) are silent on remedy. Great.....

4. So, imho have an agreement but dont rely on it. Rely on choosing the right people.

5. There is in fact no universal right/wrong person imho. What matters is you all think the same. So if one person wants a new jetski everytime there's a new model, and new navkit each year, and other goodies, but the others want minimum cost, it will not work. So, decide how you want the syndicate to work, then find people who agree with you

6. I wanted a boat with new kit and professional maintenance and cleaners and stuff, so I found partners who think the same. We have a rule of no diy, there's a professional cleaner and ironer after each visit, etc etc. I'm not saying that's right, it's just what I wanted. So I wanted sharers who wanted to share not for cost reasons but because they just thought it a better way to do their boating. I used the TCM-described method to "interview" them, and you can reasearch them a bit on the net. I insisted on a no-mortgages rule (which they wanted too) not because I cared that much but becuase I crudely figured that if they can write a cheque for £80k with no loan then they will not wince when the servicing bills arrive.

7. If you enjoy the diy side then you need to regulate this a bit. You might think [i[your[/i] diy is ok but what if your sharer puts shelves everywhere, and says he's found some nice cheap oil and serviced the engines for £15 and starts varnishing the radar display?. See, there's diy and there's diy. Whereas there's only one sort of professional maintenance. So if diy maintenance, you need rules and you need people who will respect those rules

8. Dont worry about other users kanckering your boat just by driving it. Dont get emotional about the boat at all in fact. It's a big plastic box with two bus engines that stop at 2500rpm. You cannot ride the clutch nor shag the brakes. Anyone with boat competence cannot knacker it. It's not like you're lending them your cherished Ferrari.

9. Probaly makes sense though to insist on Dayskip practical and such like certificates

10. Insurance is the same cost we find

11. Think about number of sharers. We have 3 and imho that is the right number. If you get too many no-one cares about the upkeep, it becomes a rental boat. I thought I would use a boat about 1/3rd of time, eg every 3rd weekend,so I wanted 1/3. Actually we all use it a bit less than 1/3, but that's nice becos there is slack in the calender in say I just fancy a couple of days tomorrow say. We set a calender for using it (every 3rd week) but there is very extensive date swapping by email and the culture between us is to agree requests from someone to have it on someone else's week unless already booked flights etc. The boat has 450 hours and it was new 1999, so not over or underused

12. Legally, I suggest Pt 1 register, then you own your shares absolutely and the legal position is clear. Ref the other thread, it is not a partnership and is not regulated by partnership law (a partnership must be carried on with a view of profit - if no intention to make profit then it is not a partnership in English law). The governing law is therefore private contract law. As mentioned above I prefer to avoid mortgages. You said in the other thread that if one partner gets into financial difficulty the others can buy him out cheap. Be careful of that - if a partner went bust his creditors/trustee in bankruptcy could almost certainly stop that - they would offer you the 1/3 at a fair price, otherwise could insist the boat is sold and the money split into shares. In fact, whatever you say in the contract between the sharers, if syndicate relations broke down you had better assume any one sharer could get a court to say he must be bought out at fair value or the whole boat is sold.....

13. The legal agreement (despite my whinging about it above) must cover stuff like where it is to be berthed etc. It would be mad to have disagreeemnts about such basics

14. I suggest better to have UK sharers, then no foreign legal stuff. Also make sure you are all equally distant from the boat. If one of you lives 2 miles away and others a 2hour flight, the local guy will always be on it and it kind of becomes his or hers......imho

15. Share stuff like lifejackets too.

16. You need a fuel £ share system. We keep a log book and record our mileage. Then when boat is filled up we split the fuel £ pro rata to miles. We do this (and other costs) thru a shared bank account, usually at the end of the year. Obviously this doesn't produce a perfect cost share, becuase mpg varies with speed etc. But that's the whole point, none of us cares about these errors. If a sharer says he travels 2 knots slower than you so he wants 10% knocked off his fuel cost then that is exactly the person NOT to share with imho. You want people who dont care about minor £££ discrepancies, becuase you cannot split costs perfectly. Never share with someone who gets a calculator out to split a restaurant bill imho...... qv TCM's post

Cant think of much else right now, maybe other stuff will come to mind. I repeat that what makes this work is compatibility and same mindset among the sharers. If you get that right, any eventualities will be fixed amicably. Otherwise misery. I would do it again, with the same people. In fact we probably need to trade the P42 in for something new next year.....

One last point. Totally different subject, but do think about moorings. TCM and others are more expert here, I'm a Med newbie. We were sort of promised berths to rent by marina people, no probs. And TCM kindly helped out by offering one of his in LaNap. But we wanted to be east of Cannes, near airport, and we liked Golfe Juan/Antibes. When we got the boat there (Sept 02) the marinas kept wanting to move us to different berths and sometimes horrid locations. It seemed all a bit flakey and we were worried about being chucked off anytime. So in December we said sod it and bort a berth in Golfe Juan, so now no-one can muck us about. Therefore I suggest you check this out and get it right. And dont necessarily believe it when a marina person offers a long rental tenure. Or have a deep pocket syndicate who can chuck £30k in each to buy a berth at short notice, if things get difficult