Bank Holiday Monday FOG plotter or radar?

[TargaLout]

Anyone get caught out Monday? I did around 5.00pm outside Portsmouth en-route to Chi. At Cowes @ 4.45pm glorious sunshine 5.00pm off Portsmouth I could not see beyond the pull pit (or is it a push pit?). Radar not working either, listened to QHM a couple of ships in the channel I had to cross and the hover craft was comming in. All this aside I think I would rather have a plotter than a radar in this situation, I could at least see where I was and was going.

 

[powerskipper]

See the pic I posted to Aliistairr they where taken on Tue morning in lymington.

 

[DepSol]

nah we just went cruisng in a raggie boat with engine on down t Fermain for lunch then across t Herm when the fog started clearing. Then sailed part way back to Guernsey before dropping the 75hp in and motoring the rest of the way cos we got bored.

Dom

 

[TargaLout]

Julie, that looks good visability. I'm talking if I looked hard enough I could see the pullpit!!

 

[No1_Moose]

Hm...
We left Chichester heading to Portsmouth at about 2pm on Monday. The fog hit us crossing Chichester Bar, we opted to travel at 10kts all the way to p'mouth. If we had not had Radar we would not have seen the two boats traveling at high speed the other way, I'm sure they did not have radar as neither made any turn to avoid us at 0.6mile range. We had about 50yds vis between the Saddle buoy and portsmouth entrance. Again we were "attacked" by another Mobo who crossed us 1/2 a mile north of the ridge buoy heading towards the Dolphin gate at 30kts+. Had we not had radar, we would have had no idea that he was there. We made position reports to QHM and received excellent service from him. I think it would be madness to travel in the conditions we encountered without radar and particularly at the speed others were traveling at. I believe that radar is a far more useful navigational instrument than a plotter except in very tight channels e.t.c where the radar would be rendered useless.
All IMO

 

[TargaLout]

I don't think that I "attacked" you? Well I hope not.... I went through Dolphin gate to Chi at approx 5.00pm. As you said QHM was giving excellent reports for traffic movement (his job) and any small or large vessel was getting good detailed info. If I had the choice in that situation again, I think I would rather know where I was and where I had to go (via a plotter) than knowing what was infront of me as I assume I could have turned to avoid anything at the last minute, whereas not knowing where I was would be potentially be catastrophic?

 

[No1_Moose]

But your radar shows you where you are just as well as a plotter. I would say that someone hitting you at 20kts would be more catastrophic than you hitting something standing still /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[rich]

Thats what paper charts are for, you work out where you think you are /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

 

[TargaLout]

Your right but if you are trying to find the Dolphin Channel in zero vis then it is easier with the plotter than on the radar. I did not have the luxury of a working radar and I am saying given the choice I would choose the plotter in the same situation again over the radar.
I'm not talking about paper charts, but if that was all you had then thats another subject.

 

[No1_Moose]

Ok, so if you have 100yds visability and you are travelling at 10kts towards another boat doing 10kts on a reciprocal track do you think you could both interpret the situation and turn away quick enough. What about 50yds?

 

[ians]

In my opinion, I would opt for Radar, I got caught out in very bad fog last year in a situation very similar to yours were I could just see over the end of the front rail.
One of the most scary things that has ever happened in my life. and I was very glad I had radar.

 

[smurfer]

We were out 8 miles south of Littlehampton when the fog came down very quickly, the radar did the job getting us back in safely, there were a lot of craft out there and some very interesting conversations going on with Solent Coast Guard, what amazed me was the amount of people heading out into fog with less than 50 yards visibility when we got back into Littlehampton. I shouted to some of them that it was bad for at least 10 miles but they felt that it was ok to carry on, they must be good at navigation on the psychic plane!

 

[Mariner]

Nice to have both but if I had to choose in Fog I would choose Radar every time. I think one of the problems with Radar nowadays is that people do not know how to use it. Learn to use Radar properly and it becomes indispensable.

Martin

 

[Planty]

Came back from Eastbourne to Southampton, Monday with one other boat. Started out glorious sea, glorious sun, just past Brighton, Fog descended, very dense. Would not have been without the radar or the plotter.

In fact with radar overlaid onto plotter, whilst apprehensive, never really felt lost or in particular danger. Slowed down massively of course 2hr 45min journey going became best part of 7 hours getting back. Mind you a fantastic learning experience.

Only real worrying bit was identifying which way a WightLink ferry was going just off Portsmouth. Marpa giving all sorts of differing headings, speeds etc. Approached very gingerly only to find it was actually stopped waiting for another to come out. Looked very big when it eventually loomed up out of fog with me going at less than 5knots to investigate. Radar by this time simply giving massive purple ring all around. Thought it best to carefully investigate rather than proceed fore or aft of ferry at such low speeds.

Agree with others VTS etc doing a sterling job on the day.

 

[[2068]]

I ended up returning from Newtown creek in it (fog started off Wooton Creek): I would not have gone into it, had I not received a spurious nowcast from SWMBO who said "It's Fine Here"(Hayling). It wasn't fine. Visibility about 30m, navigated to the Forts using GPS/plotter and almost hit them as they loomed darkly out of the mist. No radar - do people have radar on 24footers ?

Also, got a bit close to the Ryde hovercraft, which wasn't too bad as at least he wasn't going too fast, regular horn signals, and you can hear it coming. I think he looked more worried than I was.

Really scary bit was crossing the channel between the Forts - I had visions of being mown down by a tanker doing 20kts and never being seen again. In the end, coming back at 8kts took ages, and meant I arrived in the dark, just to add to the fun.

For the future, I hadn't thought about asking about shipping movements (although listened out) which is a good idea, and next time I might well just turn round, take the ferry, and retrieve the boat another day.

dv.

 

[alastair]

We got caught in the Needles Channel on Monday on our way back from the CIs. Thanks to SWIMBOS marpa help we were ok, but would have been scary without radar. The viz was ok till a few miles south of IOW. Had to overnight in Yarmouth instead of returning to Portsmouth. Then on Tuesday, the wind became easterly 4/5, and hey presto ...........







......the fog was just as bad and we had an uncomfortable chop to keep the kids happy.

Alastair
www.javacharter.co.uk

 

[Scaramoosh]

We too were trying to get back into Pompey with the Mont St Michel and the Pride of Le Harvre coming out, two IOW ferrys trying to swop places in the Camber, the Ryde Fast Cat waiting outside, a couple idiots asking QHM if the could cross from Bridge Buoy to Gunwharf. I was very glad that both the Radar and GPS up and running.

My main problem was a couple of Ribs which also decided to come out to play at significantly over the 10 knot speed limit (although with the vis I was only moving along at about 3knts). They never appeared on my radar, I wonder if QHM could see them on his?

They didn't have Radar fitted so I guess they must enjoy Russian Roulette

 

[mjf]

You have to ask to cross between Ballast to Gunwharf and you must be prebooked too at Gunwharf even if 'calling in' and not tieing up.

Whats this about Bridge buoy?

 

[Oldhand]

Presuming you already have an operational GPS, you can tell where you are without a plotter. All you need is a paper chart, pencil, parallel rule and dividers, i.e chartwork. However, none of these tell you if you are going to collide with another moving object so on that basis and if you can only have one, radar (with the knowledge of how to use it) is the ovious choice. /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

 

[Planty]

Would agree with the paper chart bit but have to say in Mondays conditions really wouldn't have fancied taking my or any of the crews eyes off watch for more than a few seconds, other than a quick scan of the plotter.

Other interesting thing that happened when just about to enter small ships channel toward Southampton, 6.30pm ish we came across a fair size wake, and engine noise, no perceptible target on radar however my lad definitely saw the stern of a relatively large "Princess" Fly Bridge he thought. I certainly saw no lights, just engine and big wake. So why no "target"? , However it has to be said that whilst travelling quite quick on Friday, Soton to Eastbourne my mates Phantom 46 gave off little or no target at times too. I was just thankful we fitted a radar reflector the week before. He reckoned we lit up like a Xmas Tree. on his radar. Paul