Baltic 39 as liveaboard? Or opt for Grand Soleil/Scanmar/Sweden/Sigma/Malo?

[jvardy]

Looking through Sailboatdata and other forums, I see a lot of good things written about the Jeanneau Voyage 12.50 and my better half is keen on the extra space in the cockpit and saloon. There are a few for sale in the price range we are looking for so we are going to inquire about them and see what we turn up.

 

[E39mad]

Yes the Voyage were the cruising orientated boats by Jeanneau in the late 80's and the Sun range was more of a cruiser racer. A bit like the Oceanis against First in the Beneteau range.

 

[Mr Cassandra]

Looking through Sailboatdata and other forums, I see a lot of good things written about the Jeanneau Voyage 12.50 and my better half is keen on the extra space in the cockpit and saloon. There are a few for sale in the price range we are looking for so we are going to inquire about them and see what we turn up.

If I can remember correctly the Voyage 12.5 suffered very badly from osmosis.And IMo doesn't have the style of the Magic . Sunkiss very underpowered sailed like a pig , but lots of space

 

[Neil_Y]

Looking through Sailboatdata and other forums, I see a lot of good things written about the Jeanneau Voyage 12.50 and my better half is keen on the extra space in the cockpit and saloon. There are a few for sale in the price range we are looking for so we are going to inquire about them and see what we turn up.

They were on my list when I bought my Bav390 NIce boats but then I saw one after a trip back to Plymouth from the West Indies and it looked very tired and not that strongly built. The were suffering a lot of window leaks. But it could just have been an old tired well used boat. Layout was nice and the shallower keel was good as well as simple things like a dedicated aft anchor roller. Many went for in mast furling which was a no no for me.

 

[KellysEye]

If you are doing circumnavigation we had a Hydrovane it's on watch 24 hours a day, doesn't eat, doesn't sleep and acts as a third crew member. It also handles bad weather the strongest gusts we had were 50 knots over Biscay.

 

[Roberto]

Another one from the early 90s could be the Feeling 416, well built, two versions: one fixed keel and one centerboard, which might be interesting if you like it but do not want to go into aluminium boats.

 

[jvardy]

Thanks again for all the feedback. The Voyage and Sun Magic are now at the top of the list, with the Sun Magic edging forward due to its better sailing performance. I'm still slightly on the fence about the 44ft-part but correct me if I'm wrong that it should be manageable for a couple (if the budget can swing it)? The good thing about both of these is that there are quite some for sale.

We had a chance to look at a Voyage last weekend and the missus absolutely loved it for the extra space in the cockpit and saloon, so that's a win. There's also a lot of storage in the bilges. This particular one had a new mast in 2012, a bow thruster (external pod), an electric halyard winch and enough spare parts to rig a second boat. The only downside really was that previously leaky windows had stained some of the woodwork.

I do have some doubts about how they installed the bow thruster:



I'm not sure I would have cut the stringer and left it like that. Other than that, she looked quite good.

We are going to look at a Sun Magic this Saturday

Yes the Voyage were the cruising orientated boats by Jeanneau in the late 80's and the Sun range was more of a cruiser racer. A bit like the Oceanis against First in the Beneteau range.

I saw similar feedback the French forum (Hisse et oh), with the Voyage having quite large tacking angles. The Sun Magic gets more positive feedback on it's sailing capabilities. I guess down to the shallow vs deeper keel?

If I can remember correctly the Voyage 12.5 suffered very badly from osmosis.And IMo doesn't have the style of the Magic . Sunkiss very underpowered sailed like a pig , but lots of space

Yes, pretty much each Voyage I have looked at in detail has had an anti-osmosis treatment. Do you know if the Magic would have the same issue? It's about the same age.

They were on my list when I bought my Bav390 NIce boats but then I saw one after a trip back to Plymouth from the West Indies and it looked very tired and not that strongly built. The were suffering a lot of window leaks. But it could just have been an old tired well used boat. Layout was nice and the shallower keel was good as well as simple things like a dedicated aft anchor roller. Many went for in mast furling which was a no no for me.

In-mast is out for me too. Apparently, the owners version came with in-mast and the charter version with regular hoisted mainsail (you'd think the other way around). I spoke to another owner of a Voyage and he mentioned the window leaks being a common issue. I guess it comes down to how well the owner has cared for her and dealt with these issues.

If you are doing circumnavigation we had a Hydrovane it's on watch 24 hours a day, doesn't eat, doesn't sleep and acts as a third crew member. It also handles bad weather the strongest gusts we had were 50 knots over Biscay.

Yep, on the list! Still trying to figure out how to combine it with a dinghy on davits. Guess the dinghy will have to go on deck?

Another one from the early 90s could be the Feeling 416, well built, two versions: one fixed keel and one centerboard, which might be interesting if you like it but do not want to go into aluminium boats.

I'll take a peek, I think I have seen some for sale near here.

 

[Roberto]

Hello Jonathan,
nice to see your feedback

At that time, there was a bad batch of resin being delivered to Jeanneau, my thought is it was used unevenly in building different boats.
My SL has an area of a couple of square meters with orange skin appearance under the gel coat: it does not increase in area, it does not increase in bubble size, the rest of the canoe body is ok, during the last 5-10 years it has not changed
Other hulls may have had none, or more of this resin ?

 

[doug748]

.....

I do have some doubts about how they installed the bow thruster:

View attachment 75642

I'm not sure I would have cut the stringer and left it like that. Other than that, she looked quite good..

Indeed, when you see complete rubbish like that, you begin to imagine what else may have been bodged.

 

[geem]

We sail a 44ft boat as a couple and in my view its a perfect size for liveaboard. We wouldnt want to go any bigger as on passage you are single handed sailing in shifts. Either of us can fly the boat and reef so the off watch crew gets good good quality sleep.
An absolute godsend is having a second furler behind the main genoa furler. You can run a 130% genoa on the main forestay and a working jib on the inner furler that is say 90%. This makes sailing so much easy and more pleasurable and your genoa will last a lot longer. We tend to jump from full genoa to jib. The genoa works well up to about 19kts over the deck then furl away and put out the jib for 20-30kts over the deck. The boat feels so much better under the jib, its more powerful than a reefed genoa and points higher and the boat feels lighter and drier. Its also easy to reef and trim than the genoa in 25kts. Read Jimmy Cornells view of bluewater boats for a similar view.
We love our ketch. When the wind gets above 30kts we have the option to drop the main and just sail on jib and mizzen. Easy to handle and no mainsail/boom to worry about. We have grown to love the versatility of the ketch and wouldn't want it any other way.

Cockpit shelter is important. Not only on passage but at anchor. In the Caribbean we never eat below in the saloon. We have a large sprayhood that allows four people to sit at the table out of the breeze or the odd shower or squall.
Storage space is important. The longer you live onboard the more stuff you accumulate. If you choose a lightweight boat with a low ballast ratio you will quickly overload your boat. If you have to paint a new waterline, you are overloaded.
We have folding bikes, paddleboard, kite surfing gear, sewing machine, hard dinghy, sailing rig, 15hp engine, 10hp engine, guitar, spare anchors, jordan series drogue, dinghy anchors, two sets of diving gear, etc. We are still floating above the designers marks. Our boat was designed for this so she still sails well, not being overloaded.
Good sea berth for off watch crew. This sea berth needs to be low down, in the middle of the boat and work on both tacks or have matching berth on opposite tacks. It may seem unimportant now but if you are crossing oceans and you cant get good sleep, fatigue can be a killer. You make mistakes. If the saloon has a wrap around curved seating area it may not be longer enough to sleep in. Large aft cabins are great at anchor but offer nothing as a sea berth. In addition, they take up a huge amount of space on a 44ft boat that eats in to valuable storage. You need adequate storage for wet stuff. Mooring lines, anchors, fenders, snorkelling gear, spare water containers, fuel cans, oars, etc. We have a cavernous forward deck locker and large lazarette. These two wet spaces gobble up everything so nothing needs to be on deck when we are sailing.

Good luck with your search for a boat.

 

[geem]

We sail a 44ft boat as a couple and in my view its a perfect size for liveaboard. We wouldnt want to go any bigger as on passage you are single handed sailing in shifts. Either of us can fly the boat and reef so the off watch crew gets good good quality sleep.
An absolute godsend is having a second furler behind the main genoa furler. You can run a 130% genoa on the main forestay and a working jib on the inner furler that is say 90%. This makes sailing so much easy and more pleasurable and your genoa will last a lot longer. We tend to jump from full genoa to jib. The genoa works well up to about 19kts over the deck then furl away and put out the jib for 20-30kts over the deck. The boat feels so much better under the jib, its more powerful than a reefed genoa and points higher and the boat feels lighter and drier. Its also easy to reef and trim than the genoa in 25kts. Read Jimmy Cornells view of bluewater boats for a similar view.
We love our ketch. When the wind gets above 30kts we have the option to drop the main and just sail on jib and mizzen. Easy to handle and no mainsail/boom to worry about. We have grown to love the versatility of the ketch and wouldn't want it any other way.

Cockpit shelter is important. Not only on passage but at anchor. In the Caribbean we never eat below in the saloon. We have a large sprayhood that allows four people to sit at the table out of the breeze or the odd shower or squall.
Storage space is important. The longer you live onboard the more stuff you accumulate. If you choose a lightweight boat with a low ballast ratio you will quickly overload your boat. If you have to paint a new waterline, you are overloaded.
We have folding bikes, paddleboard, kite surfing gear, sewing machine, hard dinghy, sailing rig, 15hp engine, 10hp engine, guitar, spare anchors, jordan series drogue, dinghy anchors, two sets of diving gear, etc. We are still floating above the designers marks. Our boat was designed for this so she still sails well, not being overloaded.
Good sea berth for off watch crew. This sea berth needs to be low down, in the middle of the boat and work on both tacks or have matching berth on opposite tacks. It may seem unimportant now but if you are crossing oceans and you cant get good sleep, fatigue can be a killer. You make mistakes. If the saloon has a wrap around curved seating area it may not be longer enough to sleep in. Large aft cabins are great at anchor but offer nothing as a sea berth. In addition, they take up a huge amount of space on a 44ft boat that eats in to valuable storage. You need adequate storage for wet stuff. Mooring lines, anchors, fenders, snorkelling gear, spare water containers, fuel cans, oars, etc. We have a cavernous forward deck locker and large lazarette. These two wet spaces gobble up everything so nothing needs to be on deck when we are sailing.

Good luck with your search for a boat.