Bad Service

[timgriffin]

Recently had my outdrives partial rebuild (new cone Clutches and shaft )
9 days out and spotted a oil leak informed my engineers and they got the boat lifted .
Had to charter in another boat to continue the Yachtmaster course I was running.

My engineer found that the local Volvo Dealers who did the work on the outdrives had failed to tighten two bolts (upper Drive) hence the leak .
When I arrived at the boatyard the Volvo Dealers engineer was sat tightening said two loose bolts.When I asked him the cause of the problem he shrugged his shoulders and said the drive will need flushing out when asked again he said speak to my boss.
I thanked him for being so helpful and informative .

Drive was flushed out by the Volvo Dealers Engineer and the boat relaunched

After quite a few emails asking for assurance and warranties on the said leak which I eventualy got I am now trying to claim back the cost of the charter of the other boat . I could not cancel the course as the students had come from India and it was the day before their exam.

The local Volvo Dealers informed me that they worked overtime to fix the boat and they would not be charging me for the lift or the oil or the labour.I thanked them for that information but told them that I held them responsible for the leak .
Do I have a chance to reclaim the loss of earnings or should I just put it down to bad experience.Was thinking small claims court have given them seven day's to make good the loss of earnings .
Tim

 

[[2068]]

Sounds like reasonably good service (in the sense of customer service), but poor quality control first time around on the work performed. I very much doubt you will be able to claim loss of income unless you can somehow prove negligence, which will be very hard.

 

[jfm]

I don't agree with flowerpower. They are clearly negligent, based on the facts you have described, but establishing their negligence does not (in English law) result in you having a good claim for loss of earnings

To claim for loss of earnings, or charter cost of a replacement boat, would be tricky here. For these losses to be awarded by a court to you they must (a) flow from the other party's negligence AND (b) be reasonably forseable. You're ok on (a) based on your post. But the court will set a reasonably high bar for you to get over on (b). If you told the VP dealer "I point out that if you do not do this work right and that causes me loss of use of the boat then I will incur costs of £xxx per day to hire a replacement boat or I will lose £xxx in earnings" then that will be ok, but you probbaly didn't make those statements and so you will be on the back foot. In addition there is probably a clause in the VP firm's T+Cs stating that they are not liable for consequential damages

Based on what you've said, I suggest it makes no sense here to litigate. Better just to accept a free repair

 

[DAKA]

jfm's legal knowledge is excellent and rarely wrong.

In this case (I dont disagree with his assessment) I feel any reasonable man would accept his moral duty to pay for the charter boat (ex fuel costs).

Agreed a court could be a real balls ache for no reward but I wouldnt be so quick to just let it go and a letter/email / tel call to the business owner pointing out your loss accompanied with the charter invoice would have many reputable businessmen agreeing to pay their moral obligations even if they know or take advice to learn they are not strictly liable.

 

[timgriffin]

JFM and all
Thanks for the heads up kind of thought it would be as JFM said .
Still upside is boat fixed have warranty for 12 months on the work done.
Yes it would be nice if they paid up but T&C's and legal stuff look like that won't happen.

I shall have to look around for another Volvo approved engineer on the Isle of Wight that does not make such stupid mistakes with customers boats.
Cheers
Tim

 

[Ripster]

Agree with JFMs assessment. Yes, from a moral stand point they should pay your costs for the hire boat as they (through not doing the work properly) caused this cost to transpire. But I think leaglly they will just point you to the "not liable for consequential losses" clause that is no doubt in their T&Cs of business. But, its perhaps worth persuing politely as they may agree to pay/do something towards it on top of the FOC repairs.

 

[epervier]

What pisses me when reading posts like this, is, The so called specially trained, skilled VP engineers, make the basic error of not doing the job properly in the first place, then when caught out make an issue of putting it right free of charge! big F***ing deal, the prices they charge for the parts and labour is more than enough to pay for it twice in the first place!

And No mention from them that they are checking that the time running with salty milk as a lubricant and coolant hasn't damaged the new parts fitted/gearshafts/bearings/seals other than a 12 month warranty.

The fitter was probably distracted from the job in hand by too many texts coming in during the job on his mobile, everywhere I go these days to get service of any kind there always seems to be someone dealing with me who has a mobile phone welded to the palm of their hand or a hearing aid thingy bluetoothed up their arse.


That feels better.

 

[timgriffin]

In my numerous emails to them I said I would like them to pay the cost of chartering in another boat as a show of good faith and honesty .
Never responded to that question .
Tim

 

[AllanJ]

Good luck trying to find anywhere that will accept liability for consequential loss. I assume those responding and citing 'moral' responsibility have businesses in which they would accept unspecified potential costs as an implicit part of their terms of business.

 

[MapisM]

And No mention from them that they are checking that the time running with salty milk as a lubricant and coolant hasn't damaged the new parts fitted/gearshafts/bearings/seals other than a 12 month warranty.

Precisely my first concern, while reading what happened.
The OP mentions "9 days out": depending also on the hours of use, and on how bad the water ingress was (if any), that might have definitely been enough to damage the drive.
Timgriffin, did you have a chance to see the oil before they flushed it?

 

[timgriffin]

Precisely my first concern, while reading what happened.
The OP mentions "9 days out": depending also on the hours of use, and on how bad the water ingress was (if any), that might have definitely been enough to damage the drive.
Timgriffin, did you have a chance to see the oil before they flushed it?

Yup Milky white oil leaking out from where they forgot to tighten two bolts ,only parts covered are the upper drive and cone clutches boat coming out again for another look at the drives at cost to me .

54 hours approx running time not a happy bunny but not alot you can do just reflush the oil at my expense and hope to god nothing bad happens within the next 12months .
New outdrive is around £4k .
I live on a small Island and word soon gets around as to who gives good and bad service.
Lots of locals interested in the outcome good news is there is another VP dealer in Yarmouth so my business shall be going there from now on.
Tim

 

[paultallett]

Just a thought......

I've got black coloured engines so I don't know if this would do you any joy with Volvo, but I think I'd be having a word with Volvo UK to have their thoughts on the quality of said dealers work??

Might just possibly put a little pressure on the dealer to offer a bit of 'good will' for you??

Just a thought.......

 

[MapisM]

Yup Milky white oil leaking out from where they forgot to tighten two bolts ,only parts covered are the upper drive and cone clutches boat coming out again for another look at the drives at cost to me.

54 hours approx running time not a happy bunny but not alot you can do just reflush the oil at my expense and hope to god nothing bad happens within the next 12months .
New outdrive is around £4k .

Wow, 54 hrs is a LOT of running for a drive with bad oil!
In a sense, you should hope that a new drive is necessary, 'cause that wouldn't be a "consequential loss" in my books, but rather a direct outcome of their negligence, hence to be covered by them.

Don't take this as a legal advise though.
There are folks around here who are much more qualified than myself to confirm if what I'm saying is true also in English law or not - though I'd be surprised if it wouldn't.

 

[Ripster]

Good luck trying to find anywhere that will accept liability for consequential loss. I assume those responding and citing 'moral' responsibility have businesses in which they would accept unspecified potential costs as an implicit part of their terms of business.

No of course not. But in my business if we have screwed something up, we do our best to put it right and may be persuaded reduce a bill or something as a gesture of good will. Each case is of course very different and it depends on the circumstances and amounts involved.

 

[DAKA]

No of course not. But in my business if we have screwed something up, we do our best to put it right and may be persuaded reduce a bill or something as a gesture of good will. Each case is of course very different and it depends on the circumstances and amounts involved.

Agreed.
If you can afford to put things right morally then any good business will do so.

Its only the cowboys who will hide behind TOB.

Could offer a free of labour costs service next year for example.

 

[timgriffin]

Wow, 54 hrs is a LOT of running for a drive with bad oil!
In a sense, you should hope that a new drive is necessary, 'cause that wouldn't be a "consequential loss" in my books, but rather a direct outcome of their negligence, hence to be covered by them.

Don't take this as a legal advise though.
There are folks around here who are much more qualified than myself to confirm if what I'm saying is true also in English law or not - though I'd be surprised if it wouldn't.

I know alot of hours but its a training boat in and out of gear, alot more than your average boat . It only came to light last week when I was on her teaching week before that my Instructor did not report any thing so am assuming it was a gradual slow process and hoping not since the rebuild .Volvo are being contacted as we speak to see what they think.
Not going to hold my breath though.

If the drive does fail due to their negligence it will be interesting to see how I stand .
Cheers
Tim