youen
Well-Known Member
Which sort of batten (length,width,thickness,material) will you recommand for a backstay flicker on a Beneteau First 25.7.Thanks in advance
backstay flicker
- Thread starter youen
- Start date
youen
Well-Known Member
No advice ?
[70521]
Well-Known Member
'it is the weekend, we are all sheltering from the rain.
Porthandbuoy
Well-Known Member
What’s a backstay flicker?
SteveA
Well-Known Member
On our 21.7 I made one from a piece of sail batten that was 25mm wide and about 250mm long. Bolted to the mast head with a twisted shackle at the other end for the back stay to run through. It's to clear the backstay (when slackened) from fouling the leech of the mainsail when tacking
youen
Well-Known Member
Thanks Steve can you tell me the thickness of this batten?
TomK
Member
I don’t think it will be a one size fits all. @SteveA ’s 21.7 will be quite a different size rig.
have you got a friendly rigger you could ask? Or you could try asking on here: New Powdercoated Epoxy Backstay Flickers! | RBS Batten Systems
The ones they sell on Force 4’s website say:
Code: 860815 - For yachts upto 9m
• Batten Length: 1200mm • Width: 19mm • Thickness • 7mm
we had to add one onto our 6.9m boat after we got a new mainsail. Luckily the sailmaker (McNamara) was kind enough to make it for us, so we never had to work it out.
Sorry no straight answer!
have you got a friendly rigger you could ask? Or you could try asking on here: New Powdercoated Epoxy Backstay Flickers! | RBS Batten Systems
The ones they sell on Force 4’s website say:
Code: 860815 - For yachts upto 9m
• Batten Length: 1200mm • Width: 19mm • Thickness • 7mm
we had to add one onto our 6.9m boat after we got a new mainsail. Luckily the sailmaker (McNamara) was kind enough to make it for us, so we never had to work it out.
Sorry no straight answer!
SteveA
Well-Known Member
I had some 3mm batten and decided it was too flexible so doubled it up using electrical tape so 6mm. You may find that you will need to have a slightly longer one on your 25.7. It's not 'rocket science' and anyone paying for the Force4 one at nearly £150 has more money than sense!
William_H
Well-Known Member
What a horrible arrangement for back stay. Presumably this means you must release the back stay every time you tack to allow the flicker to lift the back stay over the roach of the main sail. I suppose it depends on just how much tacking you do. I would do about 20 tacks in an hour of racing. Maybe you sail in open water. Alternatives would be to extend or add a mast crane to take back stay attachment out the back of the mast top. Mine is about 18cms for a 21ft boat. Or reduce the excess roach of the mainsail to give more clearance so back stay can remain tensioned through the tack or gybe of the main sail. Sorry just my opinion. I presume your boat has had a flicker from the start or have you bought a new main sail and now need the flicker. ol'will
SteveA
Well-Known Member
ol'will,
This arrangement is standard on the 21.7 and believe it is for the 25.7 as well. Our 21.7 was new when we got her and it was fitted then. It doesn't mean that the back stay has to be released for each tack as it only comes into effect in very light winds where the sail can get caught on the backstay; in these conditions the backstay is usually loose anyway. In winds of any strength the sail simply 'rolls' passed the backstay.
This arrangement is standard on the 21.7 and believe it is for the 25.7 as well. Our 21.7 was new when we got her and it was fitted then. It doesn't mean that the back stay has to be released for each tack as it only comes into effect in very light winds where the sail can get caught on the backstay; in these conditions the backstay is usually loose anyway. In winds of any strength the sail simply 'rolls' passed the backstay.
Neeves
Well-Known Member
We don't have a backstay so do not need a back stay flipper.
However we do need a topping lift flipper
Our topping lift is set up to ensure that it supports the boom during reefing and ensures it does not sweep the GPS aerial nor helmsman's (or woman's) head off during reefing. So the topping lift is normally slack but can catch the roach when raising the main and when tacking.
I simply bolted a batten, 2 bolts tapped into the crane, with a small block attached (through which the topping lift passes). I simply ensured the batten was long enough to lift the topping lift by going up the mast and measuring the batten such that its did what was required. I suppose you would call it trial and error - but I go it right first time.
Jonathan
However we do need a topping lift flipper
Our topping lift is set up to ensure that it supports the boom during reefing and ensures it does not sweep the GPS aerial nor helmsman's (or woman's) head off during reefing. So the topping lift is normally slack but can catch the roach when raising the main and when tacking.
I simply bolted a batten, 2 bolts tapped into the crane, with a small block attached (through which the topping lift passes). I simply ensured the batten was long enough to lift the topping lift by going up the mast and measuring the batten such that its did what was required. I suppose you would call it trial and error - but I go it right first time.
Jonathan
blush2
Well-Known Member
We don't have a backstay so do not need a back stay flipper.
However we do need a topping lift flipper
Our topping lift is set up to ensure that it supports the boom during reefing and ensures it does not sweep the GPS aerial nor helmsman's (or woman's) head off during reefing. So the topping lift is normally slack but can catch the roach when raising the main and when tacking.
I simply bolted a batten, 2 bolts tapped into the crane, with a small block attached (through which the topping lift passes). I simply ensured the batten was long enough to lift the topping lift by going up the mast and measuring the batten such that its did what was required. I suppose you would call it trial and error - but I go it right first time.
Jonathan
Our 40 footer has something similar but longer. She has running backstays and a tweaker backstay on a 6:1 to twist off the top of the mast and reduce power.
There is a batten ( actually a double batten) to keep the tweaker away from the roach of the main. The battens are bolted to the crane and a ring attached to the upper batten to take the tweaker. The two battens are fixed together so that they can slide against each other.
The set up was made by one of the original owners.
Daydream believer
Well-Known Member
Lots of boats have them & it is no harder than adjusting running backstays after every tack if you have a race crew. The backstay would need regular adjustment on a bendy rig with heavily roached/fathead main anyway. Take a trip round some of the french marinas where the race boats gather. I have seen them about 600mm long on a class of boat in Dieppe which were getting on for 30 ft long
youen
Well-Known Member
My new mainsail has àbit more roach than the previous one
Please can you explain how the 2 battens are binded thanks
blush2
Well-Known Member
My husband made up a new system when we had the mast down about 4 years ago but neither of us can remember exactly what he did. I've looked at some photos but it's not clear on any of them.
The lower batten is about 3/4 of the length of the top one and they are double bolted to the crane to prevent them accidentally twisting sideways.
I would think that some wire passing through a hole in one batten, round the other batten and then made off on the first batten in a way they stops any sharp ends sticking out would work.
Sorry we can't be any more specific.
The lower batten is about 3/4 of the length of the top one and they are double bolted to the crane to prevent them accidentally twisting sideways.
I would think that some wire passing through a hole in one batten, round the other batten and then made off on the first batten in a way they stops any sharp ends sticking out would work.
Sorry we can't be any more specific.
deeb
Well-Known Member
I had a figaro two, so a much bigger bus, with a much bigger rig. From what I remember 200mm of mast crane, the flicker was approximately 900mm x 25mm x 6mm grpth. The dyneema backstay (which was 18mm, so strong as ...) came from the mast crane, through a shackle attached to the outboard end of the flicker, then down. A consideration is the weight of the backstay - if dyneema, its light, and with a modern cascade at the business end it wont need too much to flick clear. If it's old school, with a heavy tackle / highfield lever / whatever then you'll need a more energetic flicker. Youd need the flicker to straighten when the backstay is released and not flop around with brewers droop.
Were it me I'd have a look at what others in the fleet are using, and copy it shamelessly.
All the best, and I hope that helps.
Were it me I'd have a look at what others in the fleet are using, and copy it shamelessly.
All the best, and I hope that helps.
youen
Well-Known Member
Thanks everybody for your help
blush2
Well-Known Member
Went to the boat today and had a look. We haven't added anything to keep the two battens parallel. They are held in place by the two bolts attaching them to the crane (the windex is also fitted there).
The upper batten is wider than the lower one. They are still pretty flexible, well bent over by the weight of the tweaker backstay when it is not under tension, which is approximately 20m of 10mm dynema, but hold it clear of the sail.
Colin Brown
Member
Hi I have a Beneteau 21.7 and the boat came with an extended mast head crane made from 25mmx 15 mm alloy bolted to the mast head.About 200mm long. If change this for a batten and associated blocks etc will the backstay still be as effective as most of the force would seem to go into bending the batten
Neeves
Well-Known Member
No - you need to choose your batten with care. it only needs to be 'strong' enough to lift the backstay by the batten straitening out. So if the backstay is not tensioned the batten should be straight. You would need a very heavy backstay for it to bend the batten actually needed through its weight. You only need one block, a tiny one, at the end of the batten, through which the back stay passes. It takes little or no load - it just needs to be big enough to allow the backstay to run freely.
Sadly the only way, I can think of, to size, length, the batten is to have an accurate drawing of both your rig and your mainsail - or go up the mast with sail raised and measure it
. You can check whether it will 'lift' the backstay by sticking a batten out of an upstairs windows - with back stay attached Jonathan
