back in Italy

jimbaerselman said:
You're missing the point here guys.

Traveling from country to country is about enjoying the contrast. Enjoy the best each offers; avoid experiences you don't like.

Wouldn't it be boring if every country was the same?
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True enough, Jim, but paying €45 to berth in a cess pit with no facilities is an experience I am more than willing to forgo. We loved some of Italy but in 30 years the three most expensive berths I have ever paid for have all been in Italy. Everything has its price and for us the cost of Italy was too much for its rewards.
 
vyv_cox said:
True enough, Jim, but paying €45 to berth in a cess pit with no facilities is an experience I am more than willing to forgo. We loved some of Italy but in 30 years the three most expensive berths I have ever paid for have all been in Italy. Everything has its price and for us the cost of Italy was too much for its rewards.
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+1 last time I was there (4 years ago) on one occasion I paid 120 euros for a 38 footer for an overnight berth. electricity not working, (extra charge anyway if it did) no diesel at fuel station, shabby facilities and disinterested surly staff.
Have never paid anything remotely comparable in Greece (or anywhere else for that matter)
 
Fair enough, i believe Italy has its faults. the biggest one being the complicated arrangments to find a decent birth at the right money, it took us ages, but its not an impossible problem to overcome, and once you have done it , everythings great !

Round my parts the cost of over nighters or short stays is very expensive, ITS TO KEEP THE TOURISTS AWAY ! unless your very rich, so theres some space for the LOCALS ! If you want to stay permenantly and be a LOCAL, then prices are no different to anywhere else.
 
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Charles, you may have spent a lot of time in Greece but you've been eating in the wrong places!

You can get really good food here - food that stands comparison with any country's cuisine. Today for instance, we went for lunch at the taverna at the bottom of the street from our office. We had red pepper pie, stuffed courgette flowers, baked aubergine with tomato and grated cheese, followed by mussels and linguini and octapus cooked in red wine sauce with rice. All delicious!!!
 
We been in Italy now for two week and so far we not paid for any mooring or water , yes. Fuel is 1,74 a Lt but we have more wind to sail , so hoping we won't have to buy much until we reach Corsica

We found the food cheaper but we are spending more because it so fresh and taste so nice , fish is also cheaper .

More up date to come .


blueglass said:
may be so- I don't have access to other people's invoices. If so it is still unacceptable and in common parlance still counts as a rip off in my book.
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Being ripped off Mmmmm let's see , there the two Bakery on Paxos who charges any thing from 1.50 to1.80 for bread , every where else is about a Euros , and then there the Mobil fuel trucks that seem to be able to do miracles getting 12lts in a 10 lts can , and the little food shop with no prices who just enter what ever price there like into the till . Nidri marine second hand parts , some are cheaper new , gas bottles , try and weight a full bottle I think you be surprise , Shall I go on an .

www.dufour385.webs.com
 
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Little Sam said:
Fair enough, i believe Italy has its faults. the biggest one being the complicated arrangments to find a decent birth at the right money, it took us ages, but its not an impossible problem to overcome, and once you have done it , everythings great !

Round my parts the cost of over nighters or short stays is very expensive, ITS TO KEEP THE TOURISTS AWAY ! unless your very rich, so theres some space for the LOCALS ! If you want to stay permenantly and be a LOCAL, then prices are no different to anywhere else.
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We were discussing this issue on board last night while sailing near Naples. My Italian friend hates sailing to other locations as even he is charged over 100 euros for mooring his 31' Dufour this time of year.

One factor that may change things, however, is the recent crack-down on tax avoidance through targetting yacht and MOBO owners. As the moorings become unfilled prices may drop. As mentioned, this will be ok if an Italian but they will most probably still try and squeeze the tourist.

In my experience here to date, the Italians neither want or need tourist trade, as they provide neither the facilities or the welcome you would expect. There are always exceptions to the rule, but Italy is generally expensive and less well provided for, sailing-wise, than Greece, Croatia or Turkey.

This is still a country of speedo-wearing MOBO drivers and until that changes sail boats are always going to be viewed as second-class citizens.

Mind you, there were only a handful of yachts out on the water yesterday so there are some advantages......

Andy
 
AMCD300 said:
This is still a country of speedo-wearing MOBO drivers and until that changes sail boats are always going to be viewed as second-class citizens.

Andy
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As an english mobo "driver" who has passed right through west and south Italy I can assure you that motorboats are penalised in exactly the same way. Yachts are not singled out for special attention, All boat owners in Italy are regarded as cash cows. Incidentally I don't wear speedos.
 
Do many liveaboards actually frequent marinas often? If so, your pockets are deeper than ours :). Standard from April to October is one night every 4 to 5 weeks, treat the boat to fresh water scrub, do countless loads of laundry, etc.

Definitely agree with it all being about contrasts from country to country. Have no experience (yet) of Italy but the markets in Sardinia and Sicily were amazing, Cagliari was the best I've ever seen and really looking forward to being there again early September.

Usually the way we're treated is enhanced by learning a smattering of the language, anyone who speaks a Latin based language should be good to go in other countries with same base.
 
we where on our way from UK to Greece, but got as far as Elba and changed our minds this is a great place!!!!... We plan to cruise Corsica and Sardindia for the rest of this year... we have already booked a winter berth €1700 for 8 months including lift in and out... as far as being ripped off or treated like second class citizens I cant disagree more. We ended up holed up in a yacht club in Genoa and where told we could stay as long as we liked for free... water and electric included!!! on top of that the club commodore brought us lunch at the club and gave us a tour of the city... they where the nicest bunch on guys you could hope to meet!!

Like Samantha we don't use marinas often... we spent €97 in the whole of June 2 nights in marina & 1 night on a buoy (Italy, Corsica and Sardinia )... not bad especially given the fact we are a small Cat.

Maybe Greece is even better, but for us we are having a great time and think the Italians are a great bunch, very friendly and helpful.

Stu
 
I started this thread and all I read is doom and gloom from people who never been to Italy , it all hear say , we now on our 5th week , we not payed one cent for mooring , we manage to get water most places for free , the harbour we spend nights In have all been free , the fisherman go out of there way to make room for us . Yes fuel is a lot more then Greece but if you looking for cheap fuel then go to Tunisia it only 60cent a Lt. there , to day we are on the Island of Capri , and what is it costing us ??? Nothing .

It a great place to explore and sail , more days we have sailed and we done very little motoring so in the long run we saved on fuel , unlike Greece where we motored most of the time in the Ionian only in the aegean we managed to sails most days .

I suggest all you doubting Thomas come and see for your self I think you be surprise .

www.dufour385.webs.com
 
Genuinely excited to begin exploring Italy next year after our winter which will be spent in Licata, Sicily. Will have to find a language course, my Italian stretches no further than basic conversation.. Definitely have a dream to anchor near Venice and take the dinghy in, if permitted?

Being able to sail more definitely appeals, we're in the Balearics - think motor sail at the very best most of the time.

So many new places to explore and all the time in the world to do so :)
 
sailaboutvic said:
I started this thread and all I read is doom and gloom from people who never been to Italy , it all hear say , we now on our 5th week , we not payed one cent for mooring , we manage to get water most places for free , the harbour we spend nights In have all been free , the fisherman go out of there way to make room for us . Yes fuel is a lot more then Greece but if you looking for cheap fuel then go to Tunisia it only 60cent a Lt. there , to day we are on the Island of Capri , and what is it costing us ??? Nothing .

It a great place to explore and sail , more days we have sailed and we done very little motoring so in the long run we saved on fuel , unlike Greece where we motored most of the time in the Ionian only in the aegean we managed to sails most days .

I suggest all you doubting Thomas come and see for your self I think you be surprise .

www.dufour385.webs.com
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No two people will ever have the same experiences. Yours is good so enjoy it! Ours wasn't so we left - simple.
 
blueglass said:
personally would never swap Greece for Italy.
the warmer weather is of course entirely coincidental and the food is good until you realise EVERY restaurant has Italian food and every shop sells the same pasta products.
And when it comes to being ripped off you are in a country where it has become a national art form.
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I can't let that go without comment, blueglass:) I have wintered my boat in Italy on the Adriatic side for the last 4 winters and I have found the yards to be very efficient and reasonably priced given the competence of the work they carry out. Also the food is some of the best in Europe IMHO with fantastic seafood and wines. Italy is no different to any other tourist country; if you visit the tourist hotspots you will get ripped off for mediocre food and other services. Its no different to what we do to tourists who visit London or Oxford or wherever.
Yes the cost of fuel in Italy is stupid now, especially when its about €1.20/litre just across the water in Croatia and even less in Montenegro, although there are some fuel stations in Italy on the Adriatic side who are permitted to sell tax free fuel if you are leaving the country
 
We are cruising Sardinia & Corsica, nice thing about it is, is when you want "cheap" fuel sail to Corsica, when you want "cheap" food, sail to Sardinia
 
Deleted User said:
I can't let that go without comment, blueglass:) I have wintered my boat in Italy on the Adriatic side for the last 4 winters and I have found the yards to be very efficient and reasonably priced given the competence of the work they carry out. Also the food is some of the best in Europe IMHO with fantastic seafood and wines. Italy is no different to any other tourist country; if you visit the tourist hotspots you will get ripped off for mediocre food and other services. Its no different to what we do to tourists who visit London or Oxford or wherever.
Yes the cost of fuel in Italy is stupid now, especially when its about €1.20/litre just across the water in Croatia and even less in Montenegro, although there are some fuel stations in Italy on the Adriatic side who are permitted to sell tax free fuel if you are leaving the country
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Fair comment Deleted User I only experienced the west and south coasts and found the west coast moorings extremely expensive compared to France and the UK let alone Greece. South coast better admittedly. As regards food - quality is good I agree entirely. I was referring to the lack of variety of restaraunts and shop produce. In Italy you get ITALIAN restaurants and nothing else- fair enough -and I do like Italian food but week after week I yearned for more variety.
 
blueglass said:
Fair comment Deleted User I only experienced the west and south coasts and found the west coast moorings extremely expensive compared to France and the UK let alone Greece. South coast better admittedly. As regards food - quality is good I agree entirely. I was referring to the lack of variety of restaraunts and shop produce. In Italy you get ITALIAN restaurants and nothing else- fair enough -and I do like Italian food but week after week I yearned for more variety.
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IN Greece there is a lot of variety, you can have anything with chips .....
 
blueglass said:
I like chips
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Ah, we've got to the bottom of it now! The Italians don't do chips and when they do, they don't do them very well. You'd love Croatia then. Loads of chips and a slab of fish or meat just to garnish the chips and make it look like you really did intend to eat healthily;)
 
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