Azores Courtesy Flag - Alarming!

chinita said:
Really! Were they Guarda or Policia Maritimo? (You can tell the latter as they are usually afloat).
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I am assuming Policia Maritimo. The comments were from live aboards in the Olhao Tavira area. Though I sailed a lot around the coast, I never had a run in with them. Just some pointed comments about not fishing with SCUBA gear. (I was laying a mooring). I also heard, first hand, about the PM at Sagres trying to fine some guys in a rib for not carryng
enough lifejackets. They were all wearing wetsuits, so said what was his point?

As for gun toting officials. I was chatting to the GNR chief in Silves about a previous event, where his guys had suggested I shot an intruder. "Just make sure you drag him inside and bust the glass in your front door. You won't get any trouble with us." The chief said their rules of engagement were much tougher that for me. I had pointed out to the other lot that I didn't have a gun. They replied, that as I had a business that involved cash, I could come down to the station and they would give me a licence, no problema.

I hope things are a bit tighter now.
 
VO5

"I was told this by a fellow sailor moored in Horta, first.

Then I was told inependently without prompting by another two in Praia de la Victoria."

When was this ?

thanks
 
Sounds like one of those stories to me, they couldn't have bean more welcoming when I was there.
Unlike Falmouth Customs, on my return, they got quite shirty because I wasn't flying a Q. Turns out The Azores isn't in the EEC, bit like the Channel Islands.

Plank
 
PlankWalker said:
Sounds like one of those stories to me, they couldn't have bean more welcoming when I was there.
Unlike Falmouth Customs, on my return, they got quite shirty because I wasn't flying a Q. Turns out The Azores isn't in the EEC, bit like the Channel Islands.

Plank
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The Azores is in the EEC I'm afraid.They just have a different tax situation.
 
Maybe it depends, as so much does, on the situation and personalities involved.

for instance, my brother lives aboard in Barcelona. he went to do his yachtmasters on a British flagged boat with a British skipper, and with an Italian and a Spaniard. All are Barcelona residents. They were boarded by Spanish police who went through everything and said they couldn't carry on because they didn't have a proof of VAT payment. The police lost interest at 2230, which is apparantly shift changover. My brothers course had to charter another boat to continue.

He saw one of the policeman a few days later, who apologised and said that they had a new senior officer out with them and had to show keeness. He had come back in the morning to tell them not to worry and carry on but they had already sailed in the chartered boat.
 
Slow_boat said:
Maybe it depends, as so much does, on the situation and personalities involved.

for instance, my brother lives aboard in Barcelona. he went to do his yachtmasters on a British flagged boat with a British skipper, and with an Italian and a Spaniard. All are Barcelona residents. They were boarded by Spanish police who went through everything and said they couldn't carry on because they didn't have a proof of VAT payment. The police lost interest at 2230, which is apparantly shift changover. My brothers course had to charter another boat to continue.

He saw one of the policeman a few days later, who apologised and said that they had a new senior officer out with them and had to show keeness. He had come back in the morning to tell them not to worry and carry on but they had already sailed in the chartered boat.
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The British Skipper took the wrong action.
He should not have disclosed any details of instruction or whatever, just to declare they were out for a sail, that's all. It is none of their business.
Otherwise, it gives these Dons ideas.:rolleyes:
 
Going back to the original thread, the reason for flying a courtesy flag is to acknowledge the fact that you're in another countries territiorial waters and are claiming the right of innocent passage. That's the basic reason for doing so; it essentially just polite.

However, there are nations which have laws in place which insist that foreign flagged vessels fly a courtesy flag, with penalties for failing to do so. These countries often have laws that insist that their own vessels display a national flag at all times. Now, lets see who's about, wether we get a demand for copies of the laws and a list of countries and a load of waffle about how if you're a British vessel you don't need to comply 'cos that's not British law....... Lets wait and see.
 
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Azores and flag flying

I'm afraid that the OP (VO5) is up to his usual tricks, purporting ideas and views as if they were from his own experience.
We arrived, not on my boat this time, in Horta from Bermuda last year without any Portuguese flags and nothing was said by Customs. The following day, we went to Duncan Sweets in the excellent MAYS and acquired the country ensign and the Azorean ensign and flew them with pleasure, not onerously.
On each of the previous five occasions that I have entered the Azores we have met nothing but politeness and civility from all officials. The idea that one would be pounced upon for entering without a Portuguese courtesy flag is fanciful and alarmist. I must have spent a total, on the way through, of six months in the Azores and know of no case where any yachtie has been harassed in this respect.
As a sailor, it is common courtesy to acknowledge that you cede to the laws of the country in which one is a visitor. But in the Azores you will not get fined for innocently entering harbour without the right bunting.
 
allanc said:
I'm afraid that the OP (VO5) is up to his usual tricks, purporting ideas and views as if they were from his own experience.
We arrived, not on my boat this time, in Horta from Bermuda last year without any Portuguese flags and nothing was said by Customs. The following day, we went to Duncan Sweets in the excellent MAYS and acquired the country ensign and the Azorean ensign and flew them with pleasure, not onerously.
On each of the previous five occasions that I have entered the Azores we have met nothing but politeness and civility from all officials. The idea that one would be pounced upon for entering without a Portuguese courtesy flag is fanciful and alarmist. I must have spent a total, on the way through, of six months in the Azores and know of no case where any yachtie has been harassed in this respect.
As a sailor, it is common courtesy to acknowledge that you cede to the laws of the country in which one is a visitor. But in the Azores you will not get fined for innocently entering harbour without the right bunting.
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I am only reporting what I was told, incidentally, without prompting.
The information was given to me quayside by other yachtsmen.
The three of them were Brits by the way and their boats were flying the Red Duster. The three of them were displaying the two ensigns, the Portuguese flag and the Island flag. There are no tricks about it. That is what I was told and what I saw.
 
duncan99210 said:
Going back to the original thread, the reason for flying a courtesy flag is to acknowledge the fact that you're in another countries territiorial waters and are claiming the right of innocent passage. That's the basic reason for doing so; it essentially just polite.

However, there are nations which have laws in place which insist that foreign flagged vessels fly a courtesy flag, with penalties for failing to do so. These countries often have laws that insist that their own vessels display a national flag at all times. Now, lets see who's about, wether we get a demand for copies of the laws and a list of countries and a load of waffle about how if you're a British vessel you don't need to comply 'cos that's not British law....... Lets wait and see.
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Portuguese law requires a vessel to wear the nationality flag when passing a warship and upon entering and leaving harbour.
 
VO5 said:
I am only reporting what I was told, incidentally, without prompting.
The information was given to me quayside by other yachtsmen.
The three of them were Brits by the way and their boats were flying the Red Duster. The three of them were displaying the two ensigns, the Portuguese flag and the Island flag. There are no tricks about it. That is what I was told and what I saw.
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That's the problem; you are reporting what you've been told; not what you know. And the rumour mill goes on (mea culpa). If you come to the Caribbean then be careful of the shoe thieves. They'll take your shoes with no regard for your ankles or, if you are wearing boots, your knees :D

BTW the courtesy flag says that you agree to obey the rules and customs of the country. But flags...! There is a broad spectrum of opinions on them as a forum search will reveal

Relax, most people are very understanding and helpful
 
[QUOTE=SolentBoy " Anyone who gets offended by the use or misuse of flags should really get out more."

Not quite my reaction when boarded by an Affaires Maritimes patrol boat off Cherbourg who insisted that the Normandy courtesy flag be replaced by the French ensign.
 
DownWest said:
Remember hearing similar trouble around the Faro ria, esp Olhao, officious Guardas looking (hard!) for fines.
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I´ve been here for thirty years and never encountered any such problem although I always have the courtesy flag and occasionally cause a bit of confusion when I dip my ensign to a naval vessel.
 
stephenh said:
Arrived in Horta at 0100 hrs 18mths ago and parked on the customs quay; a friendly policeman came up and said go to sleep and we'll see you after breakfast.....
So, later, we cleared customs and asked where we could buy a Portuguese courtesy flag,which we didn't have, and the custom guys then argued amongst themselves as to where the cheapest was to be found!
On enquiring about an Azores flag they said we didn't have to but it would be nice if we did - so we bought both...

Lovely islands, lovely people, excellent food, wine etc - can't wait to go back.

I think that all this talk about fines for non-display of Azores flag is a load of nonsense.
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Thoroughly agree. It is probably the friendliest place I have ever visited. Once out of Horta and progressing to the other islands -even the fishing boats you moored alongside offered free fish to you. You cant even imagine mooring to a fishing boat in this country let alone them giving you free fish!
Always gave wine or beer in exchange though.

Anyway getting back to the main point the Portugese flag was the only one we flew and no problems.
 
Be aware that up to 70% of the population of some of the Portuguese islands work for the government and are ultimately funded from Brussels. That makes for a lot of civil servants looking to justify their existence. A small number of those, just as in any other bureaucracy, including our own, will be over-zealous and throw their weight around. I recall a case on the Algarve where a yacht was fined for using an EU flag with national flag in the upper canton instead of the official national ensign.

So no, it's not official policy but you may find some awkward s*d who wants to fine you. Are you going to be able to argue your way out of it in Portuguese?

Some officials are very self-important about courtesy flags, like the French official considered it an insult to France when a yottie pulled down the courtesy flag to remove the Q flag before re-hoisting.
 
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