Azimut 68 vs Ferretti 72

[hkikis]

Hello!!

I am looking about my new boat. I have found in good prices an Azimut 68 Plus 2001 and Ferretti 72 2002.
Both are 4cabin boats and this is very useful for charter.
I would like to have this boat both for charters and personal use.

- Ferretti has 2 anchors and I was a little anxious with that but as I learned we use 1 anchor and the 2nd only in very difficult situations.
- Both boats have very comfortable bedrooms... kitchen... saloon.. dinning table.. flybridge layout.. engine room.. I cannot see any advantage on each other.
- Ferretti looks more imposing look outside. It looks very wide.
- Azimut has more modern lines.
- Both have MTU engines. The azimut 1150hp MTU/12V-183-TE93 and Ferretti has MTU 1200hp.
- Negative of AZ68 is very narrow swim platform. But not big problem.
- Negative of Ferretti is very old style interior. But this has a lot of refit. I haven't visit Ferretti yet. Only AZ. But from the fotos I see that it has also re-varnish this old style woods with dark cherry colour. I will post a foto to see it.

I would like to hear some opinions about theese boats.

As about weight... AZ68 I know that the weight is around 40tn! About the Ferretti I read on the internet somewhere about 68... or 44... I don't think so that will be more than 44 right?
What can I except for fuel consumption for a boat like this?
Has anyone experience of theese MTU engines?

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

I have a copy of the original specification for the Ferretti 72 which I obtained when I was looking at a 2002 model myself some years ago. The laden displacement is given as 44t and the gross tonnage as 68.85t which may be where the confusion arises. Also the MTU M91 2000 engines are given as 1500hp not 1200hp so you really need to check the actual power of the engines fitted to this boat. Ferrettis of this age are big heavy boats and 1200hp sounds a bit underpowered to me. To put that in perspective, my Ferretti 630 has 2 x MAN 1200hp engines. As for fuel consumption, you will be lucky to see 0.3 nmpg at 20-22 kts in the Ferretti 72 and maybe 1 nmpg at 9 kts

Yes it looks like the wood interior has been re-varnished because the original wood should be a bit lighter but its difficult to tell from your small photos. Its not unusual for a boat of this age to have a refit but you need to check that its been done well. I wouldnt call the Ferretti interior old style, more like classic

Ferrettis of this vintage were very expensive and well built boats when new and having owned 3 x Ferrettis myself, I know which one I would favour but then I'm biased ?

 

[MapisM]

As opposed to Deleted User, I have no personal reason to be biased.
But having inspected several Azimuts and Ferrettis of the late 90s/early noughties (even if all in a smaller size bracket), I also would favour the same builder as he does.
The fact alone that among a total of 70+ boats that I evaluated, I stopped looking at Azis after the 4th boat, while I considered no less than 22 Ferrettis (yes, twenty two, not a typo) says it all, really...

 

[hkikis]

Ferretti 630 is 43tn with LOA 65.5
Ferretti 72 is 44tn with LOA 72.3

Ferretti 72 has D2842 LE-406 1200hp or V 12 183TE 1150hp (as i checked all over the google )

So tell us your fuel consumption... I don't think so it will be at 0.3 nmpg

The fuel consumption of theese boats I think that will be around 10.5l/nautical mile. If I am so wrong I would like to give me examples.

I know about Ferretti glamour. I know that they are very quality boats with very good materials.
I don't like very much the "museum" interior. Deleted User they aren't classic.. They are like 80s boats!

1998 Ferretti Yachts 72 Power New and Used Boats for Sale -
Check this Ferretti 72! Full refitted interior. This boat is really perfect. When you see something like this how to live with the old design?
Your 630 is 2008 model and ofcourse your interior is modern and nice. But Ferretti untill 2005 are looking old.

As about Azimut 68 it looks like amazing boat too.. Very nice layout everywhere. I don't know if you have experience of a boat like this.
- It has bigger and better bathrooms with bathtub at master.
- Walking closet at master.
- More modern interior but the wood colour is similar.

Anyway with interior wood wrapping I think that I will be very happy with both boats haha

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Ferretti 630 is 43tn with LOA 65.5
Ferretti 72 is 44tn with LOA 72.3

The laden weight of the F630 is stated by Ferretti at 42t

Ferretti 72 has D2842 LE-406 1200hp or V 12 183TE 1150hp (as i checked all over the google )

You might have checked all over Google but this is what the official Ferretti data sheet says

The fuel consumption of theese boats I think that will be around 10.5l/nautical mile

You dont say at what speed? Without stating the speed, the fuel consumption figure is meaningless. When I first got my boat in 2014, I carried out fuel consumption checks and calculated between 10.4l/nm at 15knots and 11.7l/nm at 29kts. It is important to note those figures were taken with a completely clean hull and an unladen boat, including no tender. With a tender onboard and with all our possessions onboard, for sure the fuel consumption is higher and when the hull is fouled as well, I suspect the fuel consumption is 10-15% higher. I suspect if you assume 10.5l/nm for a Ferretti 72, that is much too optimistic

I don't like very much the "museum" interior. Deleted User they aren't classic.. They are like 80s boats!

The short answer then is for you not to buy one if you think that!

 

[Hurricane]

My MTUs are the later M93 and are 8V
My 8Vs are 1200Hp
AFAIK the 12V would be 1500Hp like Deleted User says.
The 2000 in the M91/M93 (actually CR2000) means about 2.2litres per cylinder - probably doesn't help much though.

They are in a Princess 67 (a tad over 20m) so fuel consumption would be more similar to the Azimut than the Ferretti.
We cruise at 10 knots or 25 Knots - not usually anything else.
At 25knots she is consuming about 13.5 litres per mile.

Maybe that helps

 

[MapisM]

I don't like very much the "museum" interior. Deleted User they aren't classic.. They are like 80s boats!
...
Check this Ferretti 72! Full refitted interior. This boat is really perfect. When you see something like this how to live with the old design?
Your 630 is 2008 model and ofcourse your interior is modern and nice. But Ferretti untill 2005 are looking old.

Imho, all that sharp corners should have no place in any boat, but I can see why you might like the style.
Out of curiosity, let me ask your view on the interior of another boat of the same size.
Below is a pic of her saloon, together with the refitted F72 as shown in the ad that you linked.
Just try to imagine it without the awful carpets above the wenge floor, that someone forgot to remove before taking the pic.

 

[hkikis]

MapisM yes I like the refit that you post. Maybe the foto that I post is more modern style haha. But the point is that the original look of Ferretti before 2007 are very old style...

Hurricane are you sure?
You have post a lot of times that you burn at 25knots 350l/h. This means 14l/mile
Deleted User with same weight boat like you and with same engines 1200hp 220l/h with 21knots. This means 10.5 that I hope that I will burn with Azimut 68 - 1150hp - 40tn!
Why you burn 14liter?
What rpm do you have at 25knots? If I am reading the correct fuel rate at 2200 has 162l per engine with 2400 WOT. I believe that you have 25kn around 2050 that means 130l


Deleted User ok 1200 not 1150 But I haven't seen any 72 with 1500.
As about what speed I mean about a planning speed. Most boats have almost the same fuel consumption (liters/mile) when they are planning. For example my Squadron 55 from 18 to 28 was almost the same.
Maybe they have a sweet spot that they burn a bit less.
The important is that you have a 42tn boat and you burn at 21kn 220l so you burn 10.5l/mile! So that's why I am thinking that I will burn the same. I have read a lot of posts that you have say your fuel consumption.
Also a lot of Hurricane that something goes wrong with this fuel consumption. The only difference is that he has boat with very deep V, but so much difference because of that?

 

[MapisM]

MapisM yes I like the refit that you post.

So do I. Actually, I like it even more than that F72 refit, particularly the beautiful wenge floor.
It just happens to NOT be a refit, but the original interior of an Akhir 22, as it came out of Cantieri di Pisa in the mid 80s.
Just saying...

Ref. fuel burn, just forget that.
It's far from being the most relevant cost element, in pleasure boating.

 

[Hurricane]

Hurricane are you sure?
You have post a lot of times that you burn at 25knots 350l/h. This means 14l/mile
Deleted User with same weight boat like you and with same engines 1200hp 220l/h with 21knots. This means 10.5 that I hope that I will burn with Azimut 68 - 1150hp - 40tn!
Why you burn 14liter?
What rpm do you have at 25knots? If I am reading the correct fuel rate at 2200 has 162l per engine with 2400 WOT. I believe that you have 25kn around 2050 that means 130l

This is a real world.
My 13.5litres per mile was calculated on a long run from the UK down to Spain.
Remember, there were times when the boat wasn't running at 25 knots.
Typically, when planing, she burns between 175 and 180 litres per hour per engine.
Thats where the approximation of 350 litres per hour comes from.
But, as I say, this is a real world - dirty bottom, dirty/fouled props and fuel burning off thus lightening the load all will affect the burn rate.
So, my guide line id 13.5 litres per mile.
But when I drop to displacement speed which I do all the time, there is a huge difference.

 

[Bouba]

When it’s between a boat with a bathtub and one without the choice is obvious ???

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

The important is that you have a 42tn boat and you burn at 21kn 220l so you burn 10.5l/mile! So that's why I am thinking that I will burn the same. I have read a lot of posts that you have say your fuel consumption.
Also a lot of Hurricane that something goes wrong with this fuel consumption. The only difference is that he has boat with very deep V, but so much difference because of that?

As I said and maybe you didnt understand but my fuel consumption figures were taken with an unladen boat and clean hull so they are the very best figures my boat could achieve, not the average over a season. Knowing Hurricane as I do, I suspect his figures are very accurate and you should believe them

Anyway you are focussing on the wrong thing. The fuel consumption of a boat of this size and age will be the least of your worries. You will very likely spend far more on berthing the boat than you will on putting fuel in it and for sure you will spend far more on maintaining it. Believe me, you could easily spend €30/40/50k a year maintaining, repairing and improving a boat of this size and age and thats assuming you have no major component failures. Thats what you should be worrying about, not the fuel consumption, so focus on buying a boat which is in the best possible condition rather than whether it consumes 10.5 or 13.5 l/nm

 

[MapisM]

Anyway you are focussing on the wrong thing.

Agreed wholeheartedly, and even more so if for any given size the OP is expecting that one boat model can be better than another.
No builder on earth has the magic wand for moving around large and heavy boats without burning a lot of fuel.
Anyone who wants to enjoy a big mobo and is worried about that, has only one way to make meaningful savings on fuel, and it's to slow down.
But not from 25 to 20 knots or whatever.
Only true displacement speed, measurable with just one digit, can really allow significant fuel savings.

Anyway, since I had in mind to have recently seen the review of a brand new boat in the size bracket which is being discussed, I rechecked the video.
This is the point where fuel burn is mentioned: 13 l/Nm at 20 kts.
At this size, I think that expecting anything less would be just wishful thinking.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Anyway, since I had in mind to have recently seen the review of a brand new boat in the size bracket which is being discussed, I rechecked the video.
This is the point where fuel burn is mentioned: 13 l/Nm at 20 kts.
At this size, I think that expecting anything less would be just wishful thinking.

Well spotted P. As an aside, I find it rather shocking that the fuel consumption of boats has not improved one iota in 20yrs

 

[MapisM]

That's unfair towards the latest and greatest technological developments, M.
If you accept to slow down just a couple of knots or three, cruising with a tad smaller boat and smaller engines, choosing a fine product from a builder who developed a remarkable reputation for being among the best in IPS implementation, you can drastically reduce your fuel burn to... Erm...
12 l/Nm instead of 13!

I kid you not!

 

[Bouba]

That's unfair towards the latest and greatest technological developments, M.
If you accept to slow down just a couple of knots or three, cruising with a tad smaller boat and smaller engines, choosing a fine product from a builder who developed a remarkable reputation for being among the best in IPS implementation, you can drastically reduce your fuel burn to... Erm...
12 l/Nm instead of 13!

I kid you not!

The opening sentence says, ‘I doubled the speed and doubled the consumption’. I wish I could do that

 

[roa312]

Well spotted P. As an aside, I find it rather shocking that the fuel consumption of boats has not improved one iota in 20yrs

But isn't it true that for instance a 2020 60ft boat is now often significantly beamier/taller/more square (generally just larger) than a year 2000 60 ft? At least in terms of interior volume and space it seems like all yards generally can fit way more into their boats now than they could 20 years ago. However, I'm really curious if the dimensions have also increased in proportion to the perceived extra space or if this is due to better building/designing techniques? I also imagine that improvements in building technique/design allow for significant weight reductions (some might say lower quality) but I don't know what the net effect on weight is for say a 60/70 ft 2000/2020 boat (if my above statement on larger volume is correct)?

I have often been in discussions about the above and I think many people are generally wondering about why the fuel consumptions figures for boats seems to have improved so little over so many years. So I am very interested in learning more !

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

12 l/Nm instead of 13!

I kid you not!

Yet another example of IPS in a flybridge boat giving no discernible efficiency improvement!

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

But isn't it true that for instance a 2020 60ft boat is now often significantly beamier/taller/more square (generally just larger) than a year 2000 60 ft?

Not sure that's true. My Ferretti 630 is 5.53m wide and, as above, weighs 42t laden. Not sure there are any modern 63 footers as fat and lardy as that

Modern boats are certainly taller although I'm not sure they're heavier due to modern design and construction methods

 

[NYboater]

Yet another example of IPS in a flybridge boat giving no discernible efficiency improvement!

IPS experience- 25 knot— 10 l/Nm fully loaded 84 foot flybridge