AWB's: how much of a compromise

N

Neil

Well-Known Member
Joined
6 Apr 2004
Messages
7,518
Location
Ireland
Visit site
There has been some comment, as part of numerous threads, about the compromises forced upon AWB manufacturers by market forces, to favour accommodation over sailing ability; boats designed for Med island hopping rather than circumnavigation. And that outside of the BenJenBav brigade needs must one go to the likes of Arcona, Elan etc for speed with style, or Pogo and RM for speed and perhaps without the 'comfort' of the others.

On the other hand, BenJenBav's are often praised for their fine manufacturing tolerances, as a side effect of mass-production, often leading to the idea of enhanced reliability. Furthermore, there have been anecdotal reports of BenJenBavs at least doing the ARC, if not more.

So, what is the consensus (I know this will be like herding cats) - how much of a compromise do BenJenBavs have to make to the detriment of 'sea-keeping abilities'
 
Get yourself a copy of PBO December 2011 and read the account of a trip across the Bay of Biscay in a Bavaria 36. it will make your hair stand on end and make you glad you are never likely to be out in those conditions. No problem for the boat though. On today's Bavaria Yachthelp forum there is a report of a Bav 49 that has just rounded Cape Horn on its way to Australia from Croatia where it was purchased as an ex charter boat. For several years one charter firm in Greece took its 46 across the Atlantic on the ARC and back again for the summer season in the Ionian.

There is loads of nonsense talked about the supposed deficiencies of AWBs and while they would not be first choice if you habitually sailed in extreme conditions, or your preferred pastime was offshore racing with a lot of windward work (as was popular in the UK in the last century and still done today). However, you only have to look around at the thousands of boats of this type that give owners pleasure all round the world to realise that there really is little compromise.
 
Tranona said:
There is loads of nonsense talked about the supposed deficiencies of AWBs and while they would not be first choice if you habitually sailed in extreme conditions, or your preferred pastime was offshore racing with a lot of windward work (as was popular in the UK in the last century and still done today)...
Click to expand...

Quite, which is why offshore racing boats are set up very differently and sail very differently to almost all of the boats sold to the general public -- for example the feel, the sheer power, the sails, the righting moment of something like a Volvo 65 is so different to"normal" that those who experience it for the first time would be filled with terror if only they could wipe that perma-smile off their face !

In a somewhat different space is the land of AWBs: boats with lots of sundeck (Senses), spacious cruisy boats which, sail well but save some dosh on the keels, rudders, sails, masts and other things necessary to go a "bit" faster (Bavarias, Oceanis, some Dufours), cruisy boats which are fast (Xs, Arconas, Elans, Firsts, Sunfasts, etc), boats where going fast is a bigger deal (Pogos, RMs, Dragonflys, etc), boats which are beautifully fitted out (HRs et al), metal boats (Ovnis, Allures, etc), boats in which couples can sail faraway (Discovery, Oyster) and finally a great secondhand market in all of the above!

All of these boats are compromises in their own way and even the Volvos have been compromised to keep the costs from getting stupid. And lest we forget, hidden in this space somewhere are those who truly believe that windward ability and seaworthiness are somehow correlated to beautiful joinery, and why not, it's a free world after all.
 
Tranona said:
There is loads of nonsense talked about the supposed deficiencies of AWBs and while they would not be first choice if you habitually sailed in extreme conditions, or your preferred pastime was offshore racing with a lot of windward work (as was popular in the UK in the last century and still done today). However, you only have to look around at the thousands of boats of this type that give owners pleasure all round the world to realise that there really is little compromise.
Click to expand...

Does anyone have a source for pointing ability for various boats?
 
Neil said:
Does anyone have a source for pointing ability for various boats?
Click to expand...

Polars will give you a clue as to a boat's potential but real life performance at the margins is down to the way the boat is set up, the quality of sails and the skill of the helm - plus of course the conditions all of which have an impact.

Not too difficult to spot the potential by looking at the design features (hull shape, keel, type of rig etc) and the data on ballast ratio, SA/Disp. SA/LWL etc but transforming these things into real performance at sea is where the skill of the helm and efficient use of the gear counts.
 
Tranona said:
Polars will give you a clue as to a boat's potential but real life performance at the margins is down to the way the boat is set up, the quality of sails and the skill of the helm - plus of course the conditions all of which have an impact.

Not too difficult to spot the potential by looking at the design features (hull shape, keel, type of rig etc) and the data on ballast ratio, SA/Disp. SA/LWL etc but transforming these things into real performance at sea is where the skill of the helm and efficient use of the gear counts.
Click to expand...

If you take the AWB and load it up as a live aboard the performance can suffer dramatically. It would be a great article for PBO to take a few current AWBs and load them to 50mm greater than there marks and see how they perform. Lots of AWBs are like this in the Caribbean. Even the Island Packet next to my boat in Antigua has had its waterline lifted 4 inches.
 
geem said:
If you take the AWB and load it up as a live aboard the performance can suffer dramatically. It would be a great article for PBO to take a few current AWBs and load them to 50mm greater than there marks and see how they perform. Lots of AWBs are like this in the Caribbean. Even the Island Packet next to my boat in Antigua has had its waterline lifted 4 inches.
Click to expand...

Not sure why you think it's only AWB's that suffer from being heavily loaded. A friends long distance cruising Westerly also had its waterline lifted 4 inches.
 
Just_sayin' said:
Not sure why you think it's only AWB's that suffer from being heavily loaded. A friends long distance cruising Westerly also had its waterline lifted 4 inches.
Click to expand...

Hang on, I thought Archimedes gave select manufacturers a dispensation from his principle.
 
Neil said:
There has been some comment, as part of numerous threads, about the compromises forced upon AWB manufacturers by market forces, to favour accommodation over sailing ability; boats designed for Med island hopping rather than circumnavigation.
Click to expand...

You had me worried with the title of this thread. Fortunately, circumnavigation was not on my list when I compromised by buying a Bene. Remarkably, it suits our cruising in comfort plans down to a tee.
 
FullCircle said:
No, but if you find one, I would like to purchase an extra 5 degrees for my Jeanneau.
Click to expand...

That will be your wind-up, East Coast, ditch-crawling keel. Get yerself a proper lead deep fin and ( in a piece of water that has some reasonable depth) she will point as well as the rest of 'em! :D:(
 
Pinnacle said:
That will be your wind-up, East Coast, ditch-crawling keel. Get yerself a proper lead deep fin and ( in a piece of water that has some reasonable depth) she will point as well as the rest of 'em! :D:(
Click to expand...
Not now I have had the waterline raised by 60mm..... besides, I rarely put the keel down in less than F5
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page

Top