AWB. Which is better, or are they all much of a muchness?

jwilson said:
Absolutely not the case.
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One some of the earlier and even relatively recent First/Oceanis models they actually advertised that the hull was the same (though different keel, rig, fitout etc) as a plus point for the "cruisey" Oceanis's. Certainly some of them looked near as dammit identical hull mouldings with different inner and deck mouldings and lumps of ballast and rudders. First 31.7 and Oceanis 311 are regularly quoted in sales literature as having the same hull shape.

For current models you are I think right, they have diverged the ranges.[/QUOTE]

I wouldn't know about the older boats, but if the OP is looking at new boats, then the hulls are definitely not the same.
 
Get yourself off to the Southampton boat show and see what suits you best then make your own mind up, it's a great day out. You wont find out how they sail but as youre going to the Med through the French canals I don't think sailing performance is top of the list.
 
Could not agree more with Truscotts advice, having spent 10 years in the Med (with a Bavaria).

There is a lot to be said for buying a basic AWB - after all if it is the "pottering" lifestyle you are after, any of them will be perfectly adequate. Just look at what charter companies use - and very successfully. The boat is just a platform for living, and arguably better to spend less on the boat and leave more for the living. Busting a gut to buy that "ultimate" boat won't necessarily give you any greater capability.

Going the canal route severely limits your choice of boat as the tendency now is for drafts greater than the safe 1.8m for the canals unless you limit the size overall. There is actually a lot to be said for buying a boat already out there, either late model ex charter or privately owned. The canals are potentially attractive, and in the days when boats such as the centre cockpit Moodys and Westerlys were popular, many people did it that way. However, such boats are arguably less attractive for long term living in hot climates.

Any of the boats you are looking at are quite capable of getting there round the outside - different experience from the canals. Does however remove the draft limitations and give you a tatse of open water sailing should you decide to go further afield later. Not suggesting the Med is an eternally placid lake, but for the majority of the time it is benign compared with ocean sailing.

The Med is littered with abandoned "ultimate" boats whose owners have found that the reality did not live up to expectations and there is a lot in favour of dipping your toe in by buying a cheaper more modest boat out there. You can get a ready to go recent 40 footer for less than £80k. Give it a go and if you like it, sell it on after a couple of years and buy another boat based on your experience. If you are under 50 you still have time to have two or three more boats, unlike some who aren't able to make the decision until later in life.
 
We like our Beneteau 323 for lots of reasons. It's very low maintenance, so instead of spending weekends working on the boat, we sail it.

I like the interior design, particularly the master cabin which is large with a comfortable bed. The heads are also very well designed and roomy.

Awol, I felt your comments/advice were very patronising TBH.
 
awol said:
Thank you, it comes quite naturally when dealing with people who get excited by AWBs. However, I haven't quite reached these heights!
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Its posts like these that just serve to prove that the sailing community is a polarised entity.

There are those that help others, provide inciteful comments and add to the universal knowledge base.

There are the others that just want to goad, snipe and are generally bitter about where they are and what they have acheived so far.

As the post partially relates to early retirement and sailing a boat to the med maybe yout time would be better spent trying to point out how you could pass useful comments with your boat and life in Scotland
 
Tranona said:
The Med is littered with abandoned "ultimate" boats whose owners have found that the reality did not live up to expectations and there is a lot in favour of dipping your toe in by buying a cheaper more modest boat out there. You can get a ready to go recent 40 footer for less than £80k. Give it a go and if you like it, sell it on after a couple of years and buy another boat based on your experience. If you are under 50 you still have time to have two or three more boats, unlike some who aren't able to make the decision until later in life.
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This is good advice. The Bavaria I sail is based in the South of France, to get a berth my friend had to buy a boat with the berth, such is the demand in the Med for space.
 
Oscarpop said:
Its posts like these that just serve to prove that the sailing community is a polarised entity.
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Does this mean there is a north/south divide? Or perhaps it is that the extremes of the community are attracted in opposite directions.

There are those that help others, provide inciteful comments and add to the universal knowledge base.
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Well my knowledge has increased since your OP. It started with a "which AWB is best" question - a probable troll that got sensible "who cares" responses; continued with a "stupidly stressful" 12 hour a day worker saving to buy a boat and retire before the age of 50 to "permanantly" go "sailing"; then he tells us he already takes "at least" 2 days off a week to go sailing in his Hanse which can outperform everything of the same size, though what the size and performance criteria are remain a mystery; followed by a plan to sail through the French canals and become a live-aboard. How many years there are until his intended retirement, how big a boat he is considering, what kind of live-aboard life he yearns for - floating caravan or blue-water sailing, the drip feed of information may, or may not, continue.

There are the others that just want to goad, snipe and are generally bitter about where they are and what they have acheived so far.
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Diddums, did the big bad men upset you? ... and it's "i" before "e"

As the post partially relates to early retirement and sailing a boat to the med maybe yout time would be better spent trying to point out how you could pass useful comments with your boat and life in Scotland
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At least you know I have a boat, where it and I live and that I am already retired - all from my profile. I live and sail in Scotland through choice with a boat that I selected to best meet some quite clear criteria. I also sail on other people's boats, some of which, I suppose, could be classified as AWBs and which their owners selected to meet their needs, not some concept of which brand was "best". The soubriquet "AWB" was used by you in the OP - a label I take to mean a white mass production boat that puts interior space above sailing qualities, has high freeboard, a slappy sugar-scoop stern, no mooring cleats and comes with a set of ornamental sails. I reckon you were lucky to get any helpful replies from your posts.

However, I wish you all the luck and happiness in your future that you deserve. I hope it meets your expectations.
 
We've just come back from three weeks sailing in the Med. The vast majority of the boats are AWBs. That's evidently for good a reason. Horses for courses!

Oscarpop, most posters on here are helpful polite people.

Comments like;

"Diddums, did the big bad men upset you? ... and it's "i" before "e""

are unfortunate and should be ignored. The ignore facility on here can be put to good use.
 
All very unfair to the OP, AWOL. If you bothered doing a search you will find Oscarpop has been posting regularly in the past few weeks about his plans. He already owns a fair sized Hanse and is looking for his next boat. Boats in the frame include the usual suspects and at one point a Southerly 38.

If you read the other posts on this thread you will find most are helpful and are not treating him as troll. While the basic question is probably simplistic, that does not make the issue any less real - as I went through exactly the same process when I bought my Bavaria - as have many others faced with a sometimes bewildering array of choices for their retirement boat (or any boat really). He is trying to avoid making a mistake and to buy the best boat he can for the money he has. Quite normal really.

And the question is not about whether AWBs are the right sort of boat, that is already settled. Now the question is Which one?
 
Oscarpop said:
From the main manufacturers of the AWB can you please rank in order which is perceived to be best and which is considered worse.

I would rank : 1. Hanse, 2. Jeanneau 3. Beneteau 4. Bavaria.
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As you said, it is a matter of perception, and you left out those I rank as the best. Looking at a new 2010/2011 boats here is my ranking:

1. Grand Soleil, 2. Dufour, 3. Elan, 4. .... really all the other ones are pure plastic inside and out. The jenny and benny have all switched to interior printed plastic (laminate as they try to pass it to you with a nicer word). The first two are the only manufacturers who are still using good wood interiors. I can't tell about Hanse, I have never even considered one.

My rank changes going back with the years:

2003-2007 models:

1. Grand Soleil, 2. Dufour, 3. Bavaria, 4. Elan, 5. Beneteau, 6. Jeanneau

In fact I rank Bavaria, Beneteau and Jeanneau to be the same quality, but I put Bavaria ahead only because of the Selden spars whilst the other use cheaper and flimsier Z-Spars or Allspars. Hanse isn't even in my ranking because of their obsession with a self tacking jib

Before 2000:

1. Grand Soleil, 2 Jeanneau, 3. Dufour, 4 Beneteau, 5. Bavaria

Disclaimer:

I own a 2005 Bavaria and I previously owned a 2003 Dufour. The Dufour has better interior, but flimsy Z-Spars spars. The Bavaria interior cannot compare with a Dufour, but the build is more solid and has Selden spars that are a dream.
 
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30boat said:
Is there anything wrong with Z Spars masts?Do they fail more often than Selden masts?
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I had both, and both in-mast furling. I prefer Selden and by a great deal, better quality, better design and operation of the in-mast furling too.

When people look at AWBs they look at the interior and the overall look. Personally I look at the whole package which is where most of the savings are made by the manufacturers.
For what concerns the design, new Jeanneau SO look "impressive" (due to flashy bad taste design), but once you have gone past the "bling" effect and you noticed the lack of wood inside, the savings on the spars and kit, the stupidly high cockpit and dangerously narrow side decks, you think again. You have to picture yourself on the boat in a F7, not just inside whilst berthed. Otherwise just go for a mobo.

BTW: Grand Soleil, _is_ an AWB with just a good taste and good quality minimalist style and attention to details like the flush retracting cleats.
 
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FWIW,
My preference would be a used Swan 40 over ANY of the boats mentioned above.
That's what my savings are pointed at, keep your flimsy production line boats.
I have never felt so frightened as I was in a Jeanneau crossing the Gib Straits.

Howard
 
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