AWB. Which is better, or are they all much of a muchness?

[markleuty]

I have an AWB of the number 4 variety. Currently in Le Havre. sort of liveabord and earning a living. Sail a bit, site see a bit and have a jolly comfortable bed.

Not sure if this counts as rufty-tufty, but I like it.

 

[trapezeartist]

I would say badly designed and equally badly built, and what ever you do don't put a hot kettle or coffee pot down on the Galley worktop it will melt.
Mike.

Thanks, Mike. I'll add that one to the list of mythical things that are wrong with my boat.

Funny how it's only the people who wouldn't touch an AWB with a bargepole who know about these faults. Meanwhile the AWB-owners continue in blissful ignorance of what a rubbish boat they've got.

 

[jwilson]

Thanks, Mike. I'll add that one to the list of mythical things that are wrong with my boat.

Funny how it's only the people who wouldn't touch an AWB with a bargepole who know about these faults. Meanwhile the AWB-owners continue in blissful ignorance of what a rubbish boat they've got.

Agreed: I get on and off a lot of different boats when working, and have even sailed a few too. Personally I went from a very seaworthy, heavy, pretty long-keeler, teak decks, bronze fittings, lots of brightwork on deck, and a very noisy and low power engine, to a modern Jeanneau. 99% of the time I'm actually using the boat the AWB is better, sails better in in light winds, infinitely more comfortable aboard, powerful engine that starts instantly, far less maintenance. Those are the reasons AWBs are popular.

As other have said, each marque has it's own strengths, and within some of the makes there are sub-groups, ie Beneteau First and Oceanis ranges may share almost identical hull shapes, but fitout and performance is very different. Buyers pick the particular mix of features and styles that they like. For me the choice came down to US Hunter or Jeanneau, our particular requirements being no cores in the hull (ruled out Elan & Harmony) minimal tree-wood on deck (most OK), not a linear galley (not the Oceanis), light wood finish interior (not the then dark Bavarias or Oceanis), large single aft cabin (most OK) and a good boat to sail in light/moderate winds, with a deep fin keel. Hanse would have made the cut except that I found the interior fitout to be just too IKEA, though the one I sailed performed really very well.

 

[Ceejay]

I would rate this thread well below average

 

[flaming]

ie Beneteau First and Oceanis ranges may share almost identical hull shapes,[/QUOTE]

Absolutely not the case.

 

[TiggerToo]

I would say badly designed and equally badly built, and what ever you do don't put a hot kettle or coffee pot down on the Galley worktop it will melt.
Mike.

good, now I know that Tigger is DEFINITELY NOT an AWB

 

[photodog]

I think these threads are bizarre... If folks don't like a awb, go out and buy something old. No ones gonna hold it against you!


And btw, Dehler is just a hanse with go faster stripes and a plain interior. Definite awb.

 

[Oscarpop]

Is there really that much snobbery in yachting that if it not hand made / made of wood/ has a pedigree for circumnavigation / cost over £300 for a 35 ft boat then it is considered a somewhat " lesser " boat ?

If this is the reality of the situation ,then those who hold the view are all hugely disappointing.

The reason I am on here posting and asking questions is that I am trying hard to save money to buy a boat. I am at work twelve hours a day doing a stupidly stressful job so that I can retire and go sailing permanently before I am 50.

If you are posting on here then chances are, you are not sailing in crystal clear waters but are either aspiring to do so, or are embittered by your failure to be sailing.

Please try and post constructive comments, not just your vitriolic diatribes centred about what you consider to be inferior boats. You are just showing yourselves up.

And for all those who find the above comments offensive; I am genuinely sorry.

 

[cmedsailor]

ie Beneteau First and Oceanis ranges may share almost identical hull shapes,

Absolutely not the case.[/QUOTE]

Of course they do (or at least they used to).

 

[awol]

The reason I am on here posting and asking questions is that I am trying hard to save money to buy a boat. I am at work twelve hours a day doing a stupidly stressful job so that I can retire and go sailing permanently before I am 50.

May I suggest you join a club, buy a dinghy and go sailing now? You may never make it to 50 and if you do your chances of not being permanently scarred by stress and a 12 hour/day working life are slim. Sort out your work/life balance now while you can.

 

[Elemental]

ie Beneteau First and Oceanis ranges may share almost identical hull shapes,

Absolutely not the case.

Sorry, you're wrong. The Oceanis 351 shares a hull with the First 35.7. The First has the option of a slightly deeper keel (not available on the Oceanis) and of course a different sail plan. But the hull is identical. The same is true across a range of First/Oceanis models...

 

[Blueboatman]

Back to the OP
At last years Ston boatshow, of all those AWBs mentioned, I saw less that shocked me on Ze German boat than Les Francais. Which was the case the year before as well. Which surprised me.

I write as someone who has never owned one of those mentioned, only been in and out on a few of em. And I am an unashamed wood snob. If I could live in a Teak tree house....

Whatever you choose, have fun!

If you have the time it is always worth chatting to delivery skips, those who handle warranty work and repairs and comparing 4 year old secondhand prices/realised prices.

 

[Oscarpop]

May I suggest you join a club, buy a dinghy and go sailing now? You may never make it to 50 and if you do your chances of not being permanently scarred by stress and a 12 hour/day working life are slim. Sort out your work/life balance now while you can.

Thank you for your concern . We do manage to sail at least 2 days a week on our current boat. The plan however is to upscale and find a boat that will make a suitable liveaboard for a life in the med and beyond.

 

[flaming]

Sorry, you're wrong. The Oceanis 351 shares a hull with the First 35.7. The First has the option of a slightly deeper keel (not available on the Oceanis) and of course a different sail plan. But the hull is identical. The same is true across a range of First/Oceanis models...

Might have been the case historically, but both of those boats have been out of production for at least 10 years! (assuming you mean the 35s7, not the 36.7...?)

The current First 35 is a millon miles from the Oceanis. And the 30 is something else entirely.

 

[awol]

Thank you for your concern . We do manage to sail at least 2 days a week on our current boat. The plan however is to upscale and find a boat that will make a suitable liveaboard for a life in the med and beyond.

This is where a wee bit of info on your profile helps! However, I'm not sure all AWBs are going to tick the boxes for "a suitable liveaboard for a life in the med and beyond" and depending on how many years between now and your retirement, there may not be the same choice of manufacturers still in business.

Sailing more than 2 days a week and you think you're stressed? We used to think we were lucky to get a day off for our own funerals!

 

[truscott]

To the OP, if you're seriously thinking about the Med, then perhaps you should be thinking about how a boat is set up for the Med from the outset.

One hull or two? As in most of Europe, it is getting expensive to moor a cat anywhere and a lot of the little restaurant jetty's are unhappy to take a cat with 8 punters, when they could get two mono's with 6 punters each in for dinner. As an aside, all those lovely little bays are quickly filling up with restaurants and moorings so that the locals can make a little bit of money off of you, so be prepared to be paying to play, most places you go.

Shade? Permanent rigged Bimini as opposed to having to set up and take down deck awnings before setting off. Serious liveaboards will have these anyway, but then again, serious liveaboards don't seem to move that much.

Capstan/Windlass? You're going to be anchoring in some deep places. All that chain needs to be stored somewhere, so decent anchorwell is a must, but also how is the Capstan/Wndlass powered? Long cable run from the battery bank, or a separate battery?

Fridge? You'll want to eat aboard more than you eat out (unless your 12 hour days are resulting in some massive discretionary spend). Decent sized fridge, compressor, insulation, etc...

Engine? Believe it or not, the maxim that the wind is always on the nose, is true! You will motor a LOT.

Comfort? If you're going to live aboard, not all of your time will be spent sailing. A decent amount of space so you're not constantly stepping over each other, and also some compartmentalization so you can have some privacy becomes more important, than whether you can sail in the southern ocean.

Ventilation? Obviously it's hotter in the Med than in the UK. Those aft facing hatches on the typical good old boat are great for stopping the north sea from pouring down below, but they are also ideal for preventing the wind getting in to you boat (although you won't free swing that much, chances are when you do, you'll like to open a lot of the boat up to catch the breeze).

And we haven't even got to how she sails......

My wife and I are serious cat freaks and will sail on anything that we can get a ride on, but for the Med, we've chosen a bog standard SO40 (We'd have gone with a cat, but we couldn't justify the prices being asked and the extra 20 years of working just to afford one). The SO40 sails well, has a great cockpit, is comfortable to move around on while at sea (both above and below decks), has good tankage for fuel and water etc...

We sailed in company with my brother in law and his Rival 32 for a couple of days in Turkey last week, and a friend and his Parker 325 and another on a 2009 Bavaria 38 the week previous. All socializing, on board bbq's and pot luck dinners were held in our cockpit.

The Rival 32 has some serious miles to her, having sailed around the globe to reach the Med and the Parker has sailed from the UK, both journeys that I have zero interest in doing in my boat. Not that she wouldn't or couldn't do it, but I have no interest in doing either. For pottering around in the Med with just the two of us, the SO40 suits us fine.

The Rival and the Parker don't have a permanent Bimini either, and take quite a bit of fussing to rig shade whenever we reached an anchorage. They also had to stock up on ice. A LOT, as the fridge's were not set up for the warmer temps. As far as sailing goes, they are both fine sea boats, and handled the Meltemi with aplomb, but then... so did we.

As others have said, at the end of the day all boats will be compromises, and ultimately I am sure you will buy whatever you can afford in the end, having weighed up what is important to you, and not what is important to the rest of us.

Cheers,

PT.

 

[Oscarpop]

My wife and I are serious cat freaks and will sail on anything that we can get a ride on, but for the Med, we've chosen a bog standard SO40 (We'd have gone with a cat, but we couldn't justify the prices being asked and the extra 20 years of working just to afford one). The SO40 sails well, has a great cockpit, is comfortable to move around on while at sea (both above and below decks), has good tankage for fuel and water etc...

We sailed in company with my brother in law and his Rival 32 for a couple of days in Turkey last week, and a friend and his Parker 325 and another on a 2009 Bavaria 38 the week previous. All socializing, on board bbq's and pot luck dinners were held in our cockpit.

The Rival 32 has some serious miles to her, having sailed around the globe to reach the Med and the Parker has sailed from the UK, both journeys that I have zero interest in doing in my boat. Not that she wouldn't or couldn't do it, but I have no interest in doing either. For pottering around in the Med with just the two of us, the SO40 suits us fine.

The Rival and the Parker don't have a permanent Bimini either, and take quite a bit of fussing to rig shade whenever we reached an anchorage. They also had to stock up on ice. A LOT, as the fridge's were not set up for the warmer temps. As far as sailing goes, they are both fine sea boats, and handled the Meltemi with aplomb, but then... so did we.

As others have said, at the end of the day all boats will be compromises, and ultimately I am sure you will buy whatever you can afford in the end, having weighed up what is important to you, and not what is important to the rest of us.

Cheers,

PT.

Thank you so much. Its comprehensive answers like this that more than compensate for the embittered old goats who seem to spend their days moaning about the AWB and how they are all the work of the devil.
As it happens, the Jeanneau 409 is on our shortlist, as well as the new Hanse. We intend to travel through the french canals, so will need a shoal draught.

 

[Sans Bateau]

Thank you for your concern . We do manage to sail at least 2 days a week on our current boat. The plan however is to upscale and find a boat that will make a suitable liveaboard for a life in the med and beyond.

You asked advice, and I questioned your original 'order of merit'. Having sailed both a Hanse 371 and a Baveria 36 a fair bit, I feel I have some qualification to question your order. The Hanse was owned by a very good friend who had bought it new, it was a relief to him when he managed to get shot of it. The Baveria is still in ownership of another friend, older than the Hanse and wearing a good sight better!

If I were to replace my boat, I would not even consider a Hanse, but a Baveria would be on the list. Dont be influenced by ignorant prejudice over this brand.

 

[Oscarpop]

You asked advice, and I questioned your original 'order of merit'. Having sailed both a Hanse 371 and a Baveria 36 a fair bit, I feel I have some qualification to question your order. The Hanse was owned by a very good friend who had bought it new, it was a relief to him when he managed to get shot of it. The Baveria is still in ownership of another friend, older than the Hanse and wearing a good sight better!

If I were to replace my boat, I would not even consider a Hanse, but a Baveria would be on the list. Dont be influenced by ignorant prejudice over this brand.

I am genuinely interested in everyones perceptions. It is also good to have comments and advice about our plans.

I have a Hanse at the moment which I bought from new three years ago. I would say that aside from a couple of teething problems, she is a remarkably good boat. Looks as good as she did when I had her delivered and can out perform any other boat her size.

I did not mention my boat in the initial thread as it would obviously show bias

She is just too small for a liveaboard. Saying that, my friend has a Bavaria 42 from 2006 and he loves that too. Beautiful boat down below.

 

[jwilson]

ie Beneteau First and Oceanis ranges may share almost identical hull shapes,

Absolutely not the case.[/QUOTE]

One some of the earlier and even relatively recent First/Oceanis models they actually advertised that the hull was the same (though different keel, rig, fitout etc) as a plus point for the "cruisey" Oceanis's. Certainly some of them looked near as dammit identical hull mouldings with different inner and deck mouldings and lumps of ballast and rudders. First 31.7 and Oceanis 311 are regularly quoted in sales literature as having the same hull shape.

For current models you are I think right, they have diverged the ranges.