gandy
Well-Known Member
Some dive boats fly the "A" flag as a permanent fixture, whether they have divers down or not.
Tony S
Tony S
Avoiding Scuba Divers, Surface Marker Buoys etc
- Thread starter diveaddict
- Start date
JackFrobisher
Well-Known Member
I had a similar experience just off the Wolf Rock a couple of weeks ago - I was passing relatively close to get a look at it (lightouse anorack).
There was a mobo nearby, which I eventually realised had divers down. It was showing an "A" flag but it was small and was flown next to and obscured by a radar raydome. It wasn't until I drew abeam that I saw the flag.
There was a mobo nearby, which I eventually realised had divers down. It was showing an "A" flag but it was small and was flown next to and obscured by a radar raydome. It wasn't until I drew abeam that I saw the flag.
fireball
Well-Known Member
Breath out on the way up!!
Thanks - I did know this already (being a fairly practicle chap) and I did a quick try dive a year or two back (just incase I wanted to be taught on holiday). I'm also a confident swimmer and can duck dive to 6m with flippers on (just don't stay down too long) - but thanks for the concern! /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
Thanks - I did know this already (being a fairly practicle chap) and I did a quick try dive a year or two back (just incase I wanted to be taught on holiday). I'm also a confident swimmer and can duck dive to 6m with flippers on (just don't stay down too long) - but thanks for the concern! /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
Taurus_Skipper
New Member
Flag ALPHA
As a dive charter skipper out of Dover, the only problem i get are from inexperienced posers and some of our Dutch vistors.
My boat is big enough to fly a good size ' A ', and if a boat comes to close i'll cut in front of your bow.
Only once has a flae came out to a yottie, and when he saw me aim at his main sail did he alter course,,,,,,, fast.
If boats of any kind come close to my divers ( and i watch you by radar as well ) , you will get chased away.... MY DUTY AS SKIPPER is to look after my divers above or below the water.
More to the point is , that boaters should be aware of RULES 5 & 6
As a dive charter skipper out of Dover, the only problem i get are from inexperienced posers and some of our Dutch vistors.
My boat is big enough to fly a good size ' A ', and if a boat comes to close i'll cut in front of your bow.
Only once has a flae came out to a yottie, and when he saw me aim at his main sail did he alter course,,,,,,, fast.
If boats of any kind come close to my divers ( and i watch you by radar as well ) , you will get chased away.... MY DUTY AS SKIPPER is to look after my divers above or below the water.
More to the point is , that boaters should be aware of RULES 5 & 6
LadyInBed
Well-Known Member
Now you are getting silly, when Jacque Custo started diving he didn’t know the answers to 80% of those questions and the subject matter of 40% of them hadn’t been dreamt of.
I have come late to this thread and most of the points have been covered, but one that has been missed is the number of Dive Ribs that return from a dive site with the A flag still displayed. How can you expect the A flag to be respected when it’s usage isn’t adhered to by Divers.
I am surprised that you didn’t know what boat handling training is available, I suspect that you are not a BSAC trained Diver. If you follow this BSAC Diver Cox'n qualification link you will see what is available. These courses were originally devised in conjunction with the RYA.
I have come late to this thread and most of the points have been covered, but one that has been missed is the number of Dive Ribs that return from a dive site with the A flag still displayed. How can you expect the A flag to be respected when it’s usage isn’t adhered to by Divers.
I am surprised that you didn’t know what boat handling training is available, I suspect that you are not a BSAC trained Diver. If you follow this BSAC Diver Cox'n qualification link you will see what is available. These courses were originally devised in conjunction with the RYA.
pampas
Well-Known Member
with light winds it is not possible to see the "a" flag hanging close to its uphaul, Would be better if it was 1/2 yard size painted on four 90 degree board simular to the anchor balls (Only square)
Joe_Cole
Well-Known Member
Come off it! It's 60 years since Jaques Cousteau started, things have moved on a bit since then; just as they have with the cars we drive and the boats we sail.
Whilst you are right about the flags being permanently hoisted on dive boats, I usually assume that if the boat is up on the plane, heading back to port with a load of divers on board then there's probably no divers in the water! However, it's no different from yotties never putting up their motorsailing cone....I know I don't use mine and I've never seen one used by any other boats.
FWIW I think that diveraddict has made a useful, level-headed contribution here and I welcome it.
Whilst you are right about the flags being permanently hoisted on dive boats, I usually assume that if the boat is up on the plane, heading back to port with a load of divers on board then there's probably no divers in the water! However, it's no different from yotties never putting up their motorsailing cone....I know I don't use mine and I've never seen one used by any other boats.
FWIW I think that diveraddict has made a useful, level-headed contribution here and I welcome it.
bdsweeting
Well-Known Member
The Alpha flag has been mentioned before and I think was one the best comments was - "How many divers swim at 25 knots?" If you're not diving then take the flag down.
PMB are useful but carry no weight as far as regs go.
A bit of care all round goes a long way.
PMB are useful but carry no weight as far as regs go.
A bit of care all round goes a long way.
ShipsWoofy
Well-Known Member
Re: Flag ALPHA
[ QUOTE ]
Only once has a flae came out to a yottie, and when he saw me aim at his main sail did he alter course,,,,,,, fast.
[/ QUOTE ]
he he, you jest shirly....
A white handheld is for collision and proximity warning. As a little warning, if you decide to attempt murder by firing a pyrotechnic toward my vessel, be sure you have more flares on board than I do, because it will turn in to a fight, and I will defend myself, if that means firing a flare up your jacksee then so be it.....
Most rational people would of course call on VHF warning of the danger or wave an A flag on a stick to make the point.
Do not come in here threatening people, for it will just degenerate the thread which so far has been quite interesting and educational.
I too was a commercial dive vessel skipper, and never once even thought about the tub of flares on the wheel house floor, either you have serious emotional problems or you should seek help from anger management.
Do you look down on all 'yotties'?
Sad.....
[ QUOTE ]
Only once has a flae came out to a yottie, and when he saw me aim at his main sail did he alter course,,,,,,, fast.
[/ QUOTE ]
he he, you jest shirly....
A white handheld is for collision and proximity warning. As a little warning, if you decide to attempt murder by firing a pyrotechnic toward my vessel, be sure you have more flares on board than I do, because it will turn in to a fight, and I will defend myself, if that means firing a flare up your jacksee then so be it.....
Most rational people would of course call on VHF warning of the danger or wave an A flag on a stick to make the point.
Do not come in here threatening people, for it will just degenerate the thread which so far has been quite interesting and educational.
I too was a commercial dive vessel skipper, and never once even thought about the tub of flares on the wheel house floor, either you have serious emotional problems or you should seek help from anger management.
Do you look down on all 'yotties'?
Sad.....
Joe_Cole
Well-Known Member
Re: Flag ALPHA
He did say "only once"!
He did say "only once"!
KREW2
Well-Known Member
Re: Flag ALPHA
my my a little touchy and aggressive captain
Did you fight at Trafalgar or do you advertise fish fingers
my my a little touchy and aggressive captain
Did you fight at Trafalgar or do you advertise fish fingers
hlb
RIP
Dont know if this is covered here, cant read it all. But many times, even if there is a flag, depending on the wind, it is hard to see. I'm doing 20 knots normally and if flag is directly towards me or away, I see nothing. Only see it if at about 90deg. Quite happy to keep out the way. But why oh why do divers have to pick direct ruets between headlands where boats are bound to pass close by!!
misterg
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
If anyone got close enough to my delayed to pull it up - I would want to know what my surface cover was upto.
[/ QUOTE ]
Answer: Watching the seals.
Earlier this year, North end of Puffin Island note a boat holding station. Bins out - spot the dive flag & aim well clear. We made our way past him, about 300 yds clear when I spotted one of those blow-up buoys right in front of our bow (didn't know what it was then). Assumed it was something to do with the diver, so did a rapid tack to avoid it. Either the diver was on his own, or the cover boat had got bored.
Andy
If anyone got close enough to my delayed to pull it up - I would want to know what my surface cover was upto.
[/ QUOTE ]
Answer: Watching the seals.
Earlier this year, North end of Puffin Island note a boat holding station. Bins out - spot the dive flag & aim well clear. We made our way past him, about 300 yds clear when I spotted one of those blow-up buoys right in front of our bow (didn't know what it was then). Assumed it was something to do with the diver, so did a rapid tack to avoid it. Either the diver was on his own, or the cover boat had got bored.
Andy
Malcb
Well-Known Member
Sorry this is not a specific reply to hlb.
See my earlier post. Colregs states in Rule 27(e)(ii) a rigid replica of the International Code flag A, not less than 1 metre in height. Measures shall be taken to ensure its all-round visibility.
A flag will not fly if there is enough wind and can only be seen from certain angles if it is flying. If the vessel is large enough it could have to comply with Rule 27(d)as regards shapes for a vessel engaged in dredging or underwater operations.
Also in answer to the original poster, Colregs makes no mention of the required distance for boats to keep clear, savethat in the RYA booklet it does say "For the safety of her divers she must be given a wide berth"
See my earlier post. Colregs states in Rule 27(e)(ii) a rigid replica of the International Code flag A, not less than 1 metre in height. Measures shall be taken to ensure its all-round visibility.
A flag will not fly if there is enough wind and can only be seen from certain angles if it is flying. If the vessel is large enough it could have to comply with Rule 27(d)as regards shapes for a vessel engaged in dredging or underwater operations.
Also in answer to the original poster, Colregs makes no mention of the required distance for boats to keep clear, savethat in the RYA booklet it does say "For the safety of her divers she must be given a wide berth"
gandy
Well-Known Member
Re: Flag ALPHA
[ QUOTE ]
... More to the point is, that boaters should be aware of RULES 5 & 6
[/ QUOTE ]
Could you clarify? Do you mean IRPCS rules 5 and 6?
Tony S
[ QUOTE ]
... More to the point is, that boaters should be aware of RULES 5 & 6
[/ QUOTE ]
Could you clarify? Do you mean IRPCS rules 5 and 6?
Tony S
Kilter
Well-Known Member
I've noticed that a couple of times off Puffin Island as well..maybe they are particularly attractive seals or something?!
Goldie
Well-Known Member
As a diver AND sailor, I like to think that I can see the problem from both sides. I do however, get a bit peeved when I see dive boats back in harbour yet still flying Flag Alpha, or even dashing from one site to another at 20kts with the flag up - must be one hell of a drift dive.....!
diveaddict
New Member
[ QUOTE ]
Back in the early '70s, when this was an issue for me, I tried to get training from the British Sub Aqua Club. I toddled along to a meeting at the local swimming pool, cheque book in hand, and asked to be enrolled on a training course. It wasn't possible; they had no such thing. You had to be a member of a 'club' and be friendly and clubby with all the other people. I did not wish to be friendly or clubby with these fellows, I just wanted to learn to dive.
Leaving that aside, they told me that I would not be permitted to use scuba gear for at LEAST 10 weeks as I had to do basic pool training and all the tests. The tests were so basic that I could have passed the most difficult there and then. No, that was not permitted; I had to have the TRAINING then pass each test in sequence. It was going to take at least six months to get to the most basic level of qualification so I bought the BSAC book which was easy to understand. As an engineer I had no trouble understanding everything in the book so when I bought my kit (with advice from the dive shop) all went fine. Swimmingly, in fact /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif
Maybe things have changed on the training side - I hope so - but it does not change the fact that diving is not so terribly complicated that it cannot be learnt from a book. The biggest issue is diving without a buddy but that is almost always the case for a yachtsman needing to dive to work on his hull or retrieve ground tackle. It is just one of those risks that people take from time to time and given the depths and infrequent number of dives, the absolute risks are not high. My guess is that you'll find that 75% of long distance cruising yachtsmen carry scuba on board and very few have formal qualifications - that's just a guess based on the people I know and know of, it could be miles out.
[/ QUOTE ]
Its up to you. Some Clubs are like that, mine certainly isn't. Who knows maybe you'll be lucky. Seriously if you can't answer those questions above and don't have any experience of practising the drills for kit failure then its your funeral.
Pointless arguing further, you wont change your views and neither will I.
Back in the early '70s, when this was an issue for me, I tried to get training from the British Sub Aqua Club. I toddled along to a meeting at the local swimming pool, cheque book in hand, and asked to be enrolled on a training course. It wasn't possible; they had no such thing. You had to be a member of a 'club' and be friendly and clubby with all the other people. I did not wish to be friendly or clubby with these fellows, I just wanted to learn to dive.
Leaving that aside, they told me that I would not be permitted to use scuba gear for at LEAST 10 weeks as I had to do basic pool training and all the tests. The tests were so basic that I could have passed the most difficult there and then. No, that was not permitted; I had to have the TRAINING then pass each test in sequence. It was going to take at least six months to get to the most basic level of qualification so I bought the BSAC book which was easy to understand. As an engineer I had no trouble understanding everything in the book so when I bought my kit (with advice from the dive shop) all went fine. Swimmingly, in fact /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif
Maybe things have changed on the training side - I hope so - but it does not change the fact that diving is not so terribly complicated that it cannot be learnt from a book. The biggest issue is diving without a buddy but that is almost always the case for a yachtsman needing to dive to work on his hull or retrieve ground tackle. It is just one of those risks that people take from time to time and given the depths and infrequent number of dives, the absolute risks are not high. My guess is that you'll find that 75% of long distance cruising yachtsmen carry scuba on board and very few have formal qualifications - that's just a guess based on the people I know and know of, it could be miles out.
[/ QUOTE ]
Its up to you. Some Clubs are like that, mine certainly isn't. Who knows maybe you'll be lucky. Seriously if you can't answer those questions above and don't have any experience of practising the drills for kit failure then its your funeral.
Pointless arguing further, you wont change your views and neither will I.
Nauti Fox
Well-Known Member
Saw this on an American site, seems to be a bit more distinctive than the ones over here.
Ah, I see its a lift bag and not a marker, silly me.
Still more distinctive though.
Ah, I see its a lift bag and not a marker, silly me.
Still more distinctive though.
Graham_Wright
Well-Known Member
Oviously USA as the only reference to a flag is the American one. We Brits know there are two but for the sake of non-divers, be aware that in UK waters, the A flag is almost universal.