Autopilot for longer passages

[dehlerdave]

Evening all

I have a Dehler 34 VDS with Whitlock (Lexmar) Cobra wheel steering and a ray marine wheel pilot with the recent EV 9 and ACU 100 system. This set up is fine for day sails although the clutch is starting to randomly dis engage. I have found u-tube videos on how to strip, clean and lubricate internals to reduce this problem.

Has anyone fitted an “internal” or more capable autopilot to this type of set up for longer passages single handed. I think it would have to be in the cockpit unless you know better. Or am I over thinking this and what I’ve got will be fine?

Grateful if anyone could share their thoughts and experiences.

 

[Tranona]

Replace the wheel drive with an under deck Raymarine linear drive acting direct on the steering quadrant. pretty standard stuff and vastly superior to the wheelpilot drive.

 

[ithet]

Replace the wheel drive with an under deck Raymarine linear drive acting direct on the steering quadrant. pretty standard stuff and vastly superior to the wheelpilot drive.

Agreed, a below deck pilot acting directly on the rudder quadrant gives far superior performance as I have found with a similar upgrade on my 34 footer. But you would have to replace the ACU100 Computer as they are only designed for the low power drives and have no clutch control output. If the OP was hoping for some more powerful drive to fit in his steering pedistal and connect to existing system then he will not find it.

 

[dehlerdave]

Unfortunately, the rudder quadrant is in the cockpit. The rudder stock is enclosed in a tube between the hull and the cockpit deck. Thanks for your responses so far, I should have been clearer in my question.
I had read previously of the superior performance of below deck autopilots, I suppose the other question might be how resilient are these rams as the quadrant is in the cockpit but below an opening stern panel ie open to the atmosphere.

 

[Laminar Flow]

Well, I could suggest a CPT wheel autopilot of US production. This is a fairly simple, stand-alone wheel pilot and it is waterproof to military specs. This thing will not interface with any other navigational equipment and has zero smart learning abilities etc.

The one I have is probably 40 or so years old. I bought it used, and I moved it from my previous boat which was 50' over deck and displaced 30t to my current boat, 32' and 8.5t.
It steers her reliably in any condition we have yet encountered, including going down wind in 30kts + and a quartering sea under spinnaker. The older ones, as far as I know, used a Bosch wiper motor for a drive, rather than the wee little ones employed by Raymarine.

These pilots have been used as a single pilot for around the world voyages and ocean crossings. The newer model is a bit more sophisticated than my older version and has an updated digital compass censor. They have a toothed belt and develop some 80 odd foot pounds torque at the wheel.

They don't exactly give them away, but they are cheaper than a below decks pilot. N.B. my boat used to have a hydraulic Autohelm 5000 below deck pilot. Unlike the CPT, it was apparently never able to steer the boat under sail.

Google it and good luck.

 

[geem]

Unfortunately, the rudder quadrant is in the cockpit. The rudder stock is enclosed in a tube between the hull and the cockpit deck. Thanks for your responses so far, I should have been clearer in my question.
I had read previously of the superior performance of below deck autopilots, I suppose the other question might be how resilient are these rams as the quadrant is in the cockpit but below an opening stern panel ie open to the atmosphere.

Where does your wheel steering mechanism connect to the rudder stock?

 

[Martin_J]

Interestingly there is a Van de Stadt 31 34 handbook online here... ( then see fifth link down)

Dehler owners manuals

Is yours like the diagram below on page 11?

Maybe a 'long' version of a Raymarine linear drive could be installed to the port side with a hole in the GRP, but they're designed for below deck use and I think it would be difficult preventing sea water from running back down the drive arm.

 

[dehlerdave]

Interestingly there is a Van de Stadt 31 34 handbook online here... ( then see fifth link down)

Dehler owners manuals

Is yours like the diagram below on page 11?

Maybe a 'long' version of a Raymarine linear drive could be installed to the port side with a hole in the GRP, but they're designed for below deck use and I think it would be difficult preventing sea water from running back down the drive arm.

View attachment 109521 View attachment 109520

It’s similar but has a rod linkage to the quadrant and that one appears to be a cable. The quadrant is in the same place, back of the cockpit.

Thanks though and I did find that manual useful.

 

[Sandy]

I have a Dehler 34 VDS with Whitlock (Lexmar) Cobra wheel steering and a ray marine wheel pilot with the recent EV 9 and ACU 100 system. This set up is fine for day sails although the clutch is starting to randomly dis engage. I have found u-tube videos on how to strip, clean and lubricate internals to reduce this problem.

When you say the clutch is disengaging, is this the lever that you engage the round thing on the wheel?

If it is I have the same issue and fix it with a length of string. This summer, COVID allowing, I am looking to design a more advanced strong rubber band version.

 

[Martin_J]

Thinking about how the Linear Drive works on a below deck quadrant, remember that the internal clutch on the linear drive only disconnects the motor from the drive arm... The wheel remains fully connected to the quadrant.
So - When the linear drive is steering the boat, the wheel does still move back and forth.
Could a linear drive be attached to drive that last rod that is already moving the quadrant.. or have something equal on the other side of the quadrant.
Photos might help. There's a lot of force involved moving the quadrant at that point. All mountings have to be very secure/reliable.

 

[Tranona]

It’s similar but has a rod linkage to the quadrant and that one appears to be a cable. The quadrant is in the same place, back of the cockpit.

Thanks though and I did find that manual useful.

The latest wheelpilot (EV 100) seems to be more robust as Raymarine has increased the recommended displacement to 7500kgs (I think the earlier one was 5500 or 6000). The weaknesses in the past have been the clutch mechanism and the internal gears which were plastic and just not up to it - I had 2 fail under warranty. The final replacement seemed better, but I sold the boat almost immediately so don't know how well it lasted. The latest electronics are much more sophisticated and the same as the linear drive.

Suspect you might be better speaking to either (or both) Raymarine and Lewmar as pretty sure you won't be the first person who has this issue.

 

[jwfrary]

We also have a dehler 34 vds, 1991, and I had been thinking about using a b&g SD 10 drive unit instead of the wheel pilot. - haven't used one, but the motor mounts remotely to the actuator arm itself. Meaning you could put it inside the cockpit locker out of harms way.

I don't know how durable they are though.

You would also need a different control box, an acu200 would work I think.

Cant think of a waterproof linear actuator that has a clutch. The hydraulic ones would be undesirable I think in our size of boat, and would spoil the feel of the helm. (the only advantage of the wheel pilot!)

I expect this units not actually made by B&G.... edit....Type RS Sailboat Drives - Octopus Drives as i thought yep. not made by b&g!

europe link Mechanical Linear Drives : Type RS Sailboat Drive (octopuseurope.com)

 

[jwfrary]

The latest wheelpilot (EV 100) seems to be more robust as Raymarine has increased the recommended displacement to 7500kgs (I think the earlier one was 5500 or 6000). The weaknesses in the past have been the clutch mechanism and the internal gears which were plastic and just not up to it - I had 2 fail under warranty. The final replacement seemed better, but I sold the boat almost immediately so don't know how well it lasted. The latest electronics are much more sophisticated and the same as the linear drive.

Suspect you might be better speaking to either (or both) Raymarine and Lewmar as pretty sure you won't be the first person who has this issue.

Actually I'm not sure they are any different, they certainly look the same. I think they are thinking the EV-1 has better course keeping abilities that the old generation units, and therefore less rudder movements, meaning you can get away with a smaller unit. I have always fount the wheel pilot in any install, less than satisfactory! - I throw a look of distain toward it when ever I get onboard!

 

[jwfrary]

RS PBO Aug 2010.pdf (octopuseurope.com)

 

[jwfrary]

Marine Autopilots - Marine Accessories | Aquamare Marine

Not exactly the right one but i guess they might be able to get the sailing boat version.

 

[dehlerdave]

Now that is interesting, thank you very much for that.

 

[jwfrary]

Now that is interesting, thank you very much for that.

Let us/me know how you get on if you pull the trigger. Seems like the rudder position indicator is built in which is handy.

 

[ithet]

A quick look through boats advertised for sale (which is how I discovered the easiest way to fit a drive on my boat) reveals a Dehler 34 advertised with autopilot but no wheel drive in evidence, so it must be possible to mount a drive somewhere. The Octopus looks a good solution though.

 

[Quandary]

If the Octopus type drive will fit it is worth shopping around, you do not need to buy the cable, the actuator and the motor from the same place, there are other makes and the system does work well, it requires a ACU 200 (with clutch) the 100 does not work with it. Note that most of the cable drive motors have a rudder feedback built in so you do not need one of those. I installed one in 2016 and if you plan to go that way I can give you specs and sources for most of the bits. Octopus is Canadian, the same people own the Rocna anchor brand these days and their European distribution is from Spain, there is also an Australian competitor. The drive cables are listed by Sillette among others. Simrad used to do a version but gave it up some years back as far as I could see they were all using the same componenents under their brand name.

 

[Tomaret]

Evening all

I have a Dehler 34 VDS with Whitlock (Lexmar) Cobra wheel steering and a ray marine wheel pilot with the recent EV 9 and ACU 100 system. This set up is fine for day sails although the clutch is starting to randomly dis engage. I have found u-tube videos on how to strip, clean and lubricate internals to reduce this problem.

Has anyone fitted an “internal” or more capable autopilot to this type of set up for longer passages single handed. I think it would have to be in the cockpit unless you know better. Or am I over thinking this and what I’ve got will be fine?

Grateful if anyone could share their thoughts and experiences.

I have a 36 CWS with a below deck autopilot driven by a Raymarine ACU 100 connected to the quadrant below the screw down plate behind the rudder stock. It takes me across the channel and back with no problems. The control head is an St6002 which may be indicative of its vintage.